Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Improving the Rem 700 action

1) What about the sako extractor mod? Any comments?
2) How do you hand lap and smooth out the bolt's action in and out?
3) How do you get rid of the slop in the bolt when you work it and tighten it up?

1)Extractor: This is a much debated issue with some saying the Sako extractor is the only reliable system and some saying the curent Remington extractor is fine. The fact is, Remington extractors have been known to fail. The Sako extractor does provide a more sure system.
2)The raceways get lapped the same as any other bolt action, stones, paper and oil.
3) Slop in the bolt is not necessarily a bad thing. In order to insure proper functioning while covered with dirt, ice, weeds or whatever, a little extra "play" is needed (look at the Mausers!). However, upon lock-up, the bolt should be held straight to the bore and solidly in position. Many bench and target rifles using Remington actions are "Bushed" for this. This is done by silver soldering a bushing around the bolt where it meets the rear bridge and turning concentric with the action and barrel. Of course, this requires EVERYTHING to be square, straight and true or it is of no gain.

For a typical deer hunting rifle, the bolt doesn't need to be bushed (and shouldn't be), the action can easily be lapped smooth and the factory extractor can be left as is. Perhaps the main thing that needs to be addressed is the "squareness" of the action, bolt & barrel and the trigger sytem.
John

Here is a pic of a Sako extractor conversion on my custom Remmy in 7 mag.

It really kicks'm out !!!



Although I can say that I have never had a stock Remmy fail to extract, the Sako settup does appear to be more robust.

Tony.

best way to improve it is swap it for a mauser ... har!

Unless you've got a match tight chamber the spring force if the Sako extractor is going to puch the cartridge to one side fo the chamber, resulting in a crooked case after firing. Trying to get that case straight again is no easy task.

Aside from that, the angle of ejection is higher and the spent brass could hit the scope on the way out. The raduis on the inside of the rear bridge can also catch the cases depending on the individual case, and sometimes it needs to be opened up a bit to make things work smoothly.

I've got two Sako Extractor conversions, and I will not have another unless forced by a bolt face change.

To my knowledge, both the US Marines and the US Army's sniper rifles use the stock Remington extractors. That's because they will extract a stuck case, or literally rip the head of the case off. The Sako style will slip side ways and come off the case before reaching that point. They are also prone to getting grit and debris under them rendering them less, or ineffective. The Remington extractors don't have near these tendencies and are much easier to keep clean.
The history of the USMC rifle, in particular, has been one of modifing whatever doesn't hold up under their very demanding field conditions. Many things have been changed or beefed up on their rifles, but not the Remington extractors. E

Could you describe a little more specifically how the raceways are lapped? Is it a no-brainer?

I noticed on my bolt lugs that only a little bit of the ends of both lugs are shiney where they are rubbing. Shouldn't that flat part be all shiney if it is fitting perfectly? Is this an easy fix? What can be done without pulling the whole thing apart ie., pulling out the barrel etc.

Hey Y'all, thanks very much for the replies, very informative.

Nice picture.

When having my .250AI put together, I inquired about the possiblity of using a Sako extractor. My gunsmith, Mike Bryant, was willing to do it, but was less than enthusiastic. Said that if I made a mistake on a powder charge that blew the case head, that the extractor could become one heck of a projectile in its own right. Personally, since I have never had a Remington 700 extractor fail, that advise was plenty good enough for me.

John

Hondo, I believe you're right about the Sako extractor. Also, to extract properly (to avoid cases hitting the scope) the right lug has to be undercut slightly... I can't believe that's a good thing. I had one installed on a 22-250 /700 but never again. In my mind the best way to improve a 700 is sell it and buy an M70 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Barring that on a BGR I'd have Celt do his "bolt screws" and I'd replace the trigger.



BA

I didn't mean to start a debate on the Remington extractor. In fact, all of my Remington's still have the factory extractors. I've only had two fail on me personally. One was a 721 that completely popped out (not while extracting) the other was a 788.

As far as polishing the raceways, I don't have time right now to go into all of the details, but simple use will slick them up pretty well. If you have a stainless steel reciever, you experience increased galling and no amount of polishing will make them as slick as chrome moly. I'll get back with the polishing procedure when I have a little more time.
John

I do not want to shoot a Right Hand Rem. 700 with a Sako conversion as I am Left Handed I think gas relief may be
compromised. Some thing to think about if you let some
one left handed shoot your rifle!

KK, interesting question for you, I am a left handed shooter also. I shot right handed bolts all my life, and finally purchased a left handed Model 700 BDL 2 years ago. But to be real honest with you, I am still more comfortable shooting the right handed bolt, although on a followup shot, it requires lowering the rifle, and quickly re chambering another round. What's your deal, more comfortable shooting a right handed bolt left handed, or a left handed bolt? Just curious.

I finally had to have the Sako extractor conversion done on one of my rifles. I had a standard bolt face but wanted to build a 338 Win. Celt did the work and the extractor works fine. All of the other 700s I have have std extactors.

In my mind, the advantages to the Rem extractor are: strength of extraction (I have seen them twist the heads off stuck cases) and there are no cut outs required in the bolt body providing a place for gas to excape. The disadvantage of the Rem extractor is it is susceptible to debris. It can break if a piece of brass gets behind it and the bolt face.

The Sako extractor mod weaknesses are: providing a route for gas to potentially escape. Poorly installed Sako extractors have been known to blow off the bolt under overloads. They also do not grip the case as firmly during and overload. The advantage of the Sako extractor is it is easy to keep clean and less susceptible to debris.

Recognize the pros and cons of either, and you'll be fine.

BTW, the best way to improve a 700--or any other action--is to have it accurized by a good rifle builder. This includes lapping the lugs, squaring the bolt face, squaring the receiver, re-cutting the threads, etc.

Blaine

JP Terp;

Hey neighbor, are you still around???

Can't a bolt be finished with some kind of teflon coat to make it stroke smoother????

DF,
Yes, any type of Teflon or Moly Coating will help to smooth up the action, but I would first get rid of any rough spots. Use Wet & Dry sandpaper in 300, 400 and 600 grits to smooth out any roughness. Cut a piece of wood to fit the lug raceway, wrap the paper around it and stroke it back and forth. This will smooth it up a lot. Don't go crazy with it, just enought to knock off the rough spots. Also use the paper to smooth out the loading ramp and remove any sharp edges in that area and around the chamber edge. Once this is done, the bolt will slide much smoother and cartridges will chamber like they're greased. As an additional measure, you could coat the raceways lightle with Flitz and then work the action back and forth about 50 times. This will really slick it up. Be sure to take it all apart and clean it up good when done.
John

That's an interesting overview of the advantages and disadvantages of the Sako and Remington extractors in the Remington action. Are the comments valid when describing the Sako extractor in the Sako action also? Specifically, will a Sako extractor come off as a projectile from a Sako action under excess pressure, and does the Sako extractor in the Sako action have a tendency to slip off the rim?

Jaywalker

I don't have near the experience a lot of you have with the Remington 700. I've only owned one and based on my experience with that one, I'm not likely to buy another any time soon. I can't tell you how many times I had problems extracting spent cases. I'll just say it was a lot. If I had one now, I'd be seriously thinking about the Sako conversion.

Delta;

Your remmy wasn't a 710 was it??? (just joking)

I have heard of any extractor seperation issues with the Sako extractor on a Sako. After all, it was designed that way. I also hear (and have expereinced) that properly installed Sako extractors on 700s are also very strong and safe.

As to the case grip--and I'm not sure--nmy guess is the Sako in a Sako would be as pronr to leaving a round in the chamber as would a Sako in Rem. However, it would take an excessively not load to cause that to happen--like getting a barrel obstruction, using the wrong ammo, etc.

Blaine, my biggest gripe with a Sako extractor is the need to undercut the right lug in order to position the extractor opposite the little spring loaded plunger in the bolt face... even if it's postioned there cases will still ding the scope ocassionally... someting which aggravates me to no end <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />