Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles WW .223 Brass..Lookin' Good!

I just bought a case (2,000) of new WW .223 brass (lot # 2BB40). I must say, this is some of the nicest lookin' brass that I've come across in awhile (excluding Lapua and Norma, of course).

I've processed and loaded 1,000 of them in the last few days and of those 10 bags, I had 3 that needed a little work on brass "overflow" on the tip of the necks that needed some file attention. The primer pockets are all nicely uniformed and the flash holes are perfectly centered with NO signs of any metal shavings laid back on the underside of the cases flash hole from being punched through......that's remarkable in itself.

So....those with issues as of late with this brass and caliber produced by Winchester (if indeed it is), it seems (at least from the cases produced off this particular machine), that these people are paying a bit more attention to detail and QC.

Who knows....perhaps some manufacturers of our components actually do read our comments.

Good shootin'........

That's good to hear. Have you checked some of them for uniform thickness around the circumference of the neck?

Yes...... they all measure out uniformly as well with +/- being unremarkable.

The only reason I posted this thread is even though I buy WW brass for most of my purposes, I have had less than desirable bags of WW .223 brass in the past. Nothing horrible, but oftentimes more than a few cases in each bag beyond repair and all of their flash holes needed attention and were not centered.

These seem to be about as high-end commercial as I've purchased without it being foreign produced......unfortunately.

I love loadin' new brass..no depriming, no lubing necessary prior to resizing (at least this cartridge) and it's so purdy!!

Well....back to it as I've got another 1,000 to go.....whew!!

Can I ask where the best place to get 2k of 223 brass is?

Sure......But I'm not sure it will be much help.

I've got a buddy who has his FFL and gets a good price and passes it on to me, so not a real indicator for most.

I did buy 1,200 WW .223 cases from Midway not too long ago for a good price, plus free shipping. All the amounts you're able to buy this particular brass in had shipping added, but the 1,200 cases deal has been free shipping for about a year or more now.

If all else fails and you're headed up north, Kesselring Gun Shop on Old Highway 9 always gives a bulk deal on most components, but I'm not sure if it beats some internet deals or not (no tax, but shipping, so who knows....). I'd Google up "WW .223 brass For Sale" or something like that and go from there.

Wish I could be of more help...........

I have been looking for new Remington brass and just could not find any in Canada, so I ordered 500 once fired from Blue Star brass and they shipped it right away. They said the get it right from Remington and they were the only place I could find that had any. The brass is in great shape and it looks like new after sizing and tumbling.

Magnumb,

you are buying a lot of 223 cases...

what is your life span of these things???

you either shoot a lot or you are getting much less case life than I am from mine...

jason,

for both brass and primers, try Powder Valley.. mail order from Kansas... google the address up...they have lots of 2000 in WW and Rem available according to their web site right now..

Seafire......"yes", to question #1, "not very good "to question #2 and "yes I do" and "I might very well be" to question #3.

I buy a ton of .223 cases. Right now I have some 12,000 .223 cases, all but 1,000 of those are already handloaded.

I use a max load of H335 in my AR's for varmint huntin'. I get 3,343 fps which is better velocity than some and not as much as others using 50 gr. pills. I expect that it's substantially more velocity than you feel is necessary or you push your .223's, but that load is super accurate in all of my AR's and for those long distance type, holdover shots.....not quite as holdoverish.

So....how many loads do I get per case......maybe 3, 4 if I'm lucky.

Shoot alot.....yep. 1,400 rounds in 4 days last trip. 3-4 trips per year....approx. 5,000 rounds sent out the tube just on varmints per year. This doesn't include range time. So, yeah, more than some, not as much as others.

I also like having more than enough components handy. "More is better" is a mantra I embrace, whether anothers or not. I'm fortunate that my situation allows for such expenditures, otherwise I'd have to come home from each trip and load up my used brass in a hurry so I could turn around and make another trip. We travel alot and are involved in many other activities which take up my time as well (such as off to San Diego Saturday for a weeks R&R then likely back to Montana for another varmint hunt shortly thereafter). With my current supply of components and while employing the aforementioned practice, I never find myself pushin' to meet such deadlines. Therefore, in my mind anyway, there's a method to my madness.

As to handloaders accumulating large amounts of components now, quite frankly, I find it sometimes easier to find the $ to buy components than the components themselves.....look at primers. Look at a few posts above with not being able to find Rem. .223 brass. If one thinks that we've hit the bottom of the component shortage and we're on our way up, I hope they're right. If not and it stays the same or starts impacting all of the components we use, some of us will be able to continue our sport/hobbies long past those that didn't "guess" correctly. Afterall, it is all just speculation......until it's not.

In all honesty, I have recently thought about backin' off a bit on my load because I'm well aware that I should get more loads than 3 or 4, but how many, I've never known because I've always loaded for my best accuracy and as many experienced handloaders know, that oftentimes comes with max or near max loads. So if it sounds like I'm pushin' the envelope, I suppose I am, but that's where I find my best accuracy using these specific components in these specific AR's. So my goal, as always, is accuracy and not braggin' rights over fps, it just so happens that they are most often, one and the same.

I'm listening, 'cuz I know it's comin'......grin.

Jason - As suggested by Seafire, Powder Valley is a good source as well, for all your reloading components. I think I looked at both Midway's 1,200 case deal with the free shipping and tried to compare it to PV's prices, including shipping. This was awhile ago and prices/incentives (free shipping) might have changed. Shipping by different companies isn't very uniform, so, for me anyway, I always check out that piece of the puzzle as well.

Good luck........

Magnumb
I'm a bolt guy, but I stand in awe of all the fun and all the stuff ready to go you have sitting on your shelves..

I get a life span of 10 plus loadings out of my 223 brass..

right now using a lighter load, I have a couple of batches that are on their 20th loading and still going strong...

I am reducing my practice charges lower and making my targets smaller.. also practicing off handed at 100 yds with the 223 in a bolt gun..with small targets.. really tightens up your shooting skills..

You are the ultimate "tweeker" Seafire, this is meant as a compliment. You have a passion for our sport that is both obvious and rewarding.....not only to you but to others who read your posts. The way we approach this sport may differ, but I'd like to think that we get the same results, in the way of personal satisfaction.

For all other hunting purposes, I am a bolt-guy as well. But when it comes to "varmint reduction", I can see no better method than to be on the giving-end of a dedicated, no-nonsense, finely tuned AR. Even though I make several trips each year to my varmint haunts, I enjoy each one immensely and I try to get the most out of each trip. By employing my AR's as opposed to my bolts, to my way of thinking anyway, I get a bit more bang for my buck. I also spend more bucks due to the # of rounds spent, but the trade off comes in the form of actual trigger time and "V-Max to mist" results. There's always a trade off. There are those that still think that their bolts are inherently more accurate than AR's..........that is simply not the case and hasn't been for many years (competitions are often dominated by AR's). Many people have the impression that those who choose the AR platform over bolts for such activities as varmint hunting are out there essentially just throwin' lead around and that the bolt guys are actually more the "marksmen". This could be as true as it is false as I can't speak for others approach to this sport, but if my AR's were less "efficient" in taking varmints as opposed to a bolt, I'd rack my AR's immediately and use bolts 100% of the time. My AR's are deadly efficient, both in quantity and quality..........a perfect match for my needs. Some just prefer the bolt platform for all their shooting purposes....great. That makes perfect sense to me as well. I just like to mix it up a bit and have found this mix to be what works best for me. Having the M16 being what I first cut my teeth on, it has worked out to be somewhat of a natural and comfortable choice. I'm of the firm belief that when one can shoot, he or she can shoot most anything well. The AR platform just allows me to acquire my primary, secondary and subsequent targets quickly, as well as allowing me to do that without single loading or loading up a 5 or 6 round mag continually. No working a bolt between shots which can often take the shooter off of a follow-up shot. I load some twenty 30 round mags the night before a shoot and then generally at lunch, I load up what I've expended. Not much down time and a ton of trigger time, which is what makes these trips both enjoyable and an opportunity to enhance my own shooting skills.

I must admit that when I see your "10 plus loadings", there is a bit of anxiety and envy involved on my end......grin. I would be floored with 5 loads from any brass that I've ever loaded, varmint or big game! Being that I find my most accurate loads at the top end of charge weights (95% anyway), the primer pockets are always the first to go on my brass, no matter the cal./cartridge...and when shooting an AR while trying to get "just one more load" out of a case with a so-so tight primer pocket........not good. When trying to stretch the life of a case in that manner, inevitably that primer will fall out during recoil and cause a FTF shortly thereafter by gummin' up the trigger mechanism by finding it's way to the underside of said assembly and lockin' up your trigger. Easily rectified in the field, but a PITA one after another (which has happened) and when my daughters with me, it's double duty for me as I'd rather be the "clearer" for the both of us rather than have her wastin' her time doin' so as well.

So, when the primer pockets even become suspect, especially when your choice of firearms is an AR, it is most prudent to dump those "so-so" cases. Super glue or seating them as hard as you can won't make any difference.....grin. To be honest, I've never worn out a case other than by having the primer pockets become too enlarged (no split necks, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I'd much prefer even one more loading per case over and above what I currently get, much less 7 or 8, but when I weigh out both the $ spent and the accuracy that currently I've attained by going top-end (with this load in particular), it's hard for me to not just "stay the course"......for better or for worse. We do what we're comfortable with and I know that I'm certainly a creature of habit...again...for better of for worse. My way certainly doesn't make it the right way or even the smartest way, but it fits me and my situation better than other options that I have tried.

Take care Seafire and I appreciate your teaching's as they are always interesting, with merit and sent with only help and assistance in mind. If and when the SHTF, you are more than welcome to bring you and yours to my house to sit it out. As you know, with all of the components I've compiled, we could hold off Attila the Hun and his horde for years................oh yeah, all that I ask is that you bring along any extra .223 brass that you may have laying around.........grin.

Later............really, actually. Off to San Diego in the mornin'. Gotta get out the rain for a few days.

Magnumb,

thanks for the kudos..

I don't criticize the AR guys, and in fact love the ones who blast away and leave tons of once fired brass laying around for scavangers like me...

I am a guy who just likes to take single shots at varmints.. the accuracy challenge..me vs the world sort of thing..my varmint rifles get fed one case at a time..

I seem to like the challenge of solving the problem of durability of stuff also, and like to excel at stretching out wear and tear on something..

my truck is an example of that.. not a daily driver anymore.. but it also has 491,000 miles on it... and counting..my car is a young 242,000 miler...

This current challenge of seeing how long a life I can get out of 223 brass, involving a couple of rifles, is just some of my typical stuff to occupy my time, instead of being a couch potato like the wife...she's married to the TV and I am just sort of her roommate it seems..no worries at this age anyway...

I just always have to be solving some sort of puzzle in life to keep mentally busy...guess it is my leisure...
that is why I think outside of the box, more than inside of it.. but I am always quick to adapt what works...

one of these days, maybe I'll have the opportunity to take you up on your offer and share a varmint field or two with you..and get some trigger time....

if heading over Oregon way is on your travel agenda, let me know.. see if we can set up some shooting opportunities this way... normally that wouldn't be a problem, but my varmint hot spot turns out to be a real bust this year...

Just worked with 100 new Winchester cases in 223 . I have been steering clear of Winchester brass lately because of some negative experiances,I used to prefer it. Any new 223 Rem has been hard to find in canada so my son picked up the winchester when it became available. At firt glance I was impressed, the brass was not all beat up, the lengths were consistent and the neck were round and non seem to vary more than .001 to .002 in thickness so I sized them to make the neckes nice and round for chamfering and put them in the tumbler. the next step of course is the priming and CCI br 4 primers almost fall in ! I tried fed 205's and Rem 7 1/2s and they were slightly snugger but I have cases that have been fired 10 times that have tighter primer pockets that these new winchesters! It looks like winchester is still having quality control issues.

Hello from San Diego, Seafire!

My wife brought along her computer and is currently workin' out in the gym here at our condo.........my time to play.

Thanks for the reply. "Outside of the box"...perhaps not as far as you think. I expect alot more people are now trying to figure out ways to lengthen the life of all components given the prices of each nowadays......you're just waaaay ahead of the game...grin. You also have alot more knowledge banked having done so, which is never a bad thing.

When on my hunts, I do see alot of brass left on the ground, but expect that with the prices one can now get at recycling centers for most metals, they might be rethinking that approach. I always use a brass catcher when shooting my AR's, be it in the field or on the range. I don't like huntin' around for my brass in the grass nor trying to figure out which is my brass on the range floor. Even when shootin' brass that I know is on it's last legs, I still employ a brass catcher as I will recycle it when the I have enough to make a trip to the recycler. So....as for finding my brass on the deck.....good luck. I also don't think it a responsible move for anyone to leave their brass layin' around on properties of another, just not respectful to my way of thinkin', especially when being allowed to hunt where it is always a privilege to do so.

Headin' for the beach, so gotta run. Not sure when we're returnin' home, sometime between Thursday and Saturday. Nice to get away, but miss the kids and pets. I've got the last 1k of my new WW brass to process and load as well. I can't stand unloaded brass............a pet peeve of mine.

Take care Seafire and keep up the good work. Sharin' a varmint field or 2 with you would be my pleasure.

FWIW - I only use 205's and found this most recent batch of new WW brass to snugly fit all of my 205's, some almost too snugly....go figure.

I would have been bummed too, especially with 2,000 of my new WW brass had they exhibited larger than spec primer pockets.

Can't understand why such variances occur......not acceptable.

Sorry to hear........

Magnumb: I went over your posting regarding the comparative accuracy of Rifles in 223 Remington caliber, the AR type vs. the bolt action type repeatedly and carefully. It appears you think that AR's are more accurate than bolt action Rifles in caliber 223 Remington?
Your quote to follow:

"There are those that still think that their bolts are inherently more accurate than AR's..........that is simply not the case and hasn't been for many years (competitions are often dominated by AR's)".

I have shot alongside AR type Rifles for decades now. Both at the range in the Varmint Hunting arena.
I am not sure you are correct in your contention.
I base my contention, that my observations and experience has been that the bolt action heavy barreled tuned Varmint Rifle is indeed more accurate than a heavy barreled tuned AR type Varmint Rifle.
Without exception the slam-banger type Varminters I have shot alongside in Ground Squirrel Colonies, in Prairie Dog Towns and in heavily infested Rock Chuck Colonies - these "slam-banger" type Varminters SOON have their AR barrels so hot that their accuracy begins to wane!
And that waning AR accuracy (that was not quite up to bolt gun accuracy to begin with!) is now glaringly obvious from the NOW hot AR Rifle!
These "slam-banger" types with their "hot" barrels (notice I did not say WARM barrels!) without fail, then turn to "rapid fire" to obtain distant kills!
I prefer bolt actions - quality over quantity, of fire in other words!
I can predict your retort and in anticipation of it I am glad that YOU can control your rate of fire BUT I have never seen your type in the field!
Not ONCE!
I am happy you enjoy your AR type Varminters and more power to you.
But a sweeping statement like you have posted is simply not worthy of being called realistic.
If you would like quantitative particulars from my loading log regarding my many 223 Varminters grouping abilities, then just ask, I will GLADLY provide them.
Long live the AR typres - I enjoy harvesting their brass, among some other things about them.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy - last mornin' in San Diego. Time to get out of Dodge as the US Open starts here today. Not a golf guy nor into huge crowds. Wife's still asleep, so thought I'd take this opportunity to comment on your post.

I appreciate that you read over my posts both "repeatedly and carefully" as I'm sure everyone does or should do prior to responding to a post where it is obvious that they have issues with.......seems a prudent approach. Having done so as you described, it is a bit hard to believe that you still were offended by what I wrote. My posts were about as inocuous as one could possibly present such a position without coming out and saying that AR's Rule!!! This was not my intent nor close to what I intended to say.......and certainly not how it should have been taken (and this is after reading over my previous posts as you say you did to try to ascertain where I might have stepped over that line (your line anyway). Had my posts done so, one would have thought that more than just yourself would have also been offended and posted a response, in kind, as you chose to do. Didn't happen.............nobody seemed to construe my posts as you did, which is quite understandable given the thought that I put into my comments. Why would I want to rile anyone, much less make sweeping statements that I've never been known to make before?

Simply stating that you read my post over "repeatedly and carefully" and expecting that statement to somehow bolster or justify your position regarding what you thought I said, is akin to getting an "F" on an essay because YOU'RE SURE that the teacher meant something other than what she asked you to do. Having taken that approach and finding out that it was poor judgment on your part, resulting in such a poor grade, you then somehow feel slighted even though you duly earned said grade.......and no matter that 99% of the class answered the question that was actually asked, you'll likely continue to place the blame elsewhere, but now more so out of pride rather than due to the lack of comprehension or your unwillingness to accept the essay's question at face value. I stated that some people might question the AR's ability to be just as inherently accurate as a bolts. I also stated that this simply isn't the case anymore, BUT DID NOT say, mention, or imply that an AR was inherently any more accurate than a bolt!!!

Your quote of my quote regarding "inherent accuracy" meant exactly what I wrote without saying anymore than I intended and surely not a slam on a bolt's accuracy potential. My continued read of that sentence I wrote still says what I meant to say, no more, no less. For you to read into it that I stated that bolts are inherently less accurate than AR's, is obviously your choice to do so, but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what I wrote.

Your above post clearly states your bias, "...and that waning AR accuracy (that was not quite up to a bolt guns accuracy TO BEGIN WITH)", is a huge picture window into your feelings about AR's. To make such a statement, one that cannot possibly be verified as being true......really quite silly. It is far and beyond any statement that I've ever made nor made in any of the above posts, yet you accused me of doing so while clearly doing so yourself......go figure. Stating that my comments were, "simply not worthy of being called realistic", but then you obviously feeling that your statements somehow should be accepted as fact and completely realistic.....simply mind boggling.

I can't remember ever seeing a "governor" either offered on a bolt gun nor offered as an aftermarket device which would not allow a bolt gun to heat up past a certain temperature, therefore automatically shutting down until cooled off to a preset temperature. Maybe I've been ignorant all these years....can't say. But unless there's such a device out there and available to all of us, a bolt gun can and will also be shot past what you and I and millions of other shooters would consider to be a reasonable shooting temperature, just like any AR shooter can and will do. No difference whatsoever, so going down that road, IMHO, was both foolish and another exercise in poor judgment. BTW - I take along 2 AR's of exactly the same configuration for such circumstances as over heated barrels, as well as a .22lr for the same reason. Can't imagine not doing so and would approach the hot barrel issue with bolts this way as well......again, no difference between the 2 platforms regarding barrel overheating. Again, a useless comparison offered for what reason? This wasn't intended to be a "Zeiss vs Leupy" thread VarmintGuy, but it should be obvious by now that your assumptions had alot more to do with your issues than with my promoting a certain type of platform for anyone but myself.

Don't know of the types that you say you shoot alongside that you can both outshoot and you have observed involving themselves in such practices as overheating their guns, but I don't speak for others nor do I care what others do. Your contention that bolts are more accurate than AR's IS certainly a sweeping statement.....one that I've never made and hopefully never do as it is just not a responsible nor "realistic" approach to such a discussion.

I don't doubt that you could produce groups of tiny clusters for our viewing pleasure, but that won't be necessary as I and likely many others, could do the same. It proves nothing, but that you have retained such a target......I used to do so as well until those targets just became more clutter than I wanted to deal with. This thread isn't and never was intended as a "duel or showdown" of sorts, at least not on my end. I can't see for the life of me where you felt it became a "my gun is better than your gun" thread.

IMHO - It's best to not try to read between the lines first, but rather to take a post at face value and then go from there. Again.....don't know who you hang out with or shoot with nor do I care, but I'm obviously not one of them. I try my best to write/speak as clearly as possible while also trying to be respectful of others choices while doing so. In reviewing my posts in this thread, I can't see where I've failed to do either.

FWIW - As with thinkin' that AR shooters are the only one's capable of leaving large amounts of brass on the ground for the taking, I'd suggest that a bolt guy can do exactly the same when shooting off a bench for hours in a varmint field as well. So......no need to just thank us AR guys as you, again, so sweepingly did. Personal decisions to overly heat up a barrel, leave brass layin' around, choosin' what firearm to use or the level of shooting expertise that an individual chooses to attain with that chosen firearm, is just that.......personal and based on our own likes/dislikes and level of motivation, nothing more and nothing less. Pictures of tiny little clusters are just the result of our individual approach to our sport, not due to just the platform of the firearm. Never has, never will be. To that end, there will always be a tinier cluster out there, some shot by people whom I'm sure you may value much less than yourself, so the "show me yours and I'll show you mine" approach can quite often be a real eye-opener and educational for some........and no one that I know of is exempt from a good schoolin' now and then.

Best to you.

Oh yeah, forgot to ask......what is a "slam-banger" TYPE? Given your other comments and the way you seem to "lean" in your post, I would not think that this was a compliment to the owners of AR's on your part......just an assumption on mine.

It would seem that you are now categorizing people and their personal attributes/choices along with a particular firearm that they just happen to find worthy of using/owning. More than a bit "Zumboish", actually alot, wouldn't you say?

A full-on street sweeper could spend a full day in front of your residence and still might not be able to collect and contain all the sweeping statements that you offered in a single post.

And no.....I don't think that you did predict my retort correctly. Once again, assuming that you know what someone is thinking, going to say or really meant instead of taking their words at face value is likely (almost always) giving oneself much more credit than one should.


Happy Fathers Day to all those fathers out there........ALL types.

.

As far as accuracy goes, the AR can be a shooter. I have fired two heavy barreled tuned AR's that will shoot along side my Remington XR 100. One AR, a Rock River model, will shot three shot groups into one egg shaped hole on a regular basis. How many bolt guns will do that? Yes, I have some that will do that well but not a great deal better.

Now, how many AR do I have? None, 0, I do not like them. Call me Zumbo if you will. I think they are ugly and handle like a tree branch. But like it or not, I have to respect them.

Interesting thread, gentlemen.

.