Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire "What's the difference?"

Haggis,

The door is open and you are more than free to leave this country if you don't like it. Mexico and Canada are a lot closer than you think. People like you that bitch and moan instead of taking actions are what piss me off. Ya'll need to get your balls out of your purse. Your complaining ain't gonna getcha anywhere. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

On that note, I can't wait to vote for Bush again in '04.

Two weeks ago, George Bush and the military found, captured, and disabled forever one of the most horrible, efficient, feared weapons of mass destruction the world has seen in recent times. This weapon accounted for tens of thousands of deaths, buried in mass graves- a weapon of mass destruction by any definition. That weapon was-Saddam Hussein.

I'm not bitching nor am I moaning; I merely asked some questions. As to leaving the country: my Great-grandfather was a veteran, my Grandfather was a veteran, my Father was a veteran, I am a veteran, and my son is a veteran. I think we've earned the right to pose a question or two. If not, then we all fought for nothing.

Haggis - Bless you, but you're a kook! I don't think anything is getting stolen from oil rich countries. Those countries have gone from oil rich to $$ rich. Make that $$$$ rich. Now, their leaders may be stealing the $$$$ for themselves and western countries are making money too, but its not exactly imperialism going on.

Why don't you Dubya haters just admit that its a d*mn good thing the Americans went in and cleaned house. That area was going to hell in a hand basket, terrorism was out of control, thanks to the fat rapist. I don't care what the nations do to themselves or their neighbors, but if they start terrorizing the west or disrupting the oil supply, then its time for them to learn a lesson.

Enough is enough.

Regards, sse

I didn't say that Bush was trying to steal anything, I just asked if that's what the writer I was referring to was implying as much.

As for being a Bush hater or lover; I am neither. I am an American and a patriot. I am loyal to this country first and foremost.

I do think that there are some Bush fanatics out there who are neither patriotic toward this country nor loyal to AMerican causes. They are just fanatics, and no one can reason with a fanatic.

The post that started this thread had was about a quote made by Bush during an interview. Apparently a Bush fanatics first impulse is to attack anyone or anything that might uncover the object of their fanaticism as being other than pure in his intentions.

The man gassed thousands of his own people for the Hell of it. Thats enough reason for me to do whatever it takes to get rid of him. I f people thinks he wouldn't have killed every american he could and get by with it they've got their head in a very deep sandhole.

If I may qoute Bush, "whats the difference"? We had to stomp Iraq cause thats the way the world works. I, or he, didnt make it that way, thats just the way it is. Saddam flicking his finger at us caused us to appear weak, in many ways it emboldened our enemies. We had to make a fashion statement, to the world, regarding American military power and resolve.

Already your seeing a payoff with this mutt in Libya crying uncle. The simple fact is the only way to deal with tyrannical regimes is to smah them into little bits and hang the leaders. Its always been that way, and always will be that way. Freedom loving peoples will never be able to live in peace with the like of Saddam Hussein.

He didnt have to make up a reason with me to attack. Heck just say, "cause Saddam tried to kill my daddy", would have been enough for me. Im sorry good soldiers died, and will continue to, but that is what soldiers do. Its up to us to honor them and supprt them.

Saddam thumbed his nose at us, and the world community, long enough. Even if he didnt still have WMDs, and he probably does somewheres, he would always be a threat to re-constitute them.

Now he has a ticket to paradise, tho I doubt hes going to get there. Have a nice trip Saddam................10

Now this is a Bush supporter response I can respect. To some it doesn't make a difference, to others it does. Nothing personal, just a point of view.

I am just interested in hearing the perspectives/points of view on Bush's statement.

10pt- I agree with most of what you said. Sometimes, even in political situations, Darwinism does work! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> However, if we went over there to get rid of the POS like we did with bin Laden, just say so.

The discovery is far from over, stop trying to jump to conclusions. There is no such thing as a 1 hr newstime war. That's the real issue. Hell, they have an entire airforce buried under the sand, do you think they would of hid anyting else? The answer is yes.................and you know it.

On a closely related tangent, what really gets me is how these idiots complain about whether Saddam is being treated with dignity. Here is guy on par with Hitler and people are concerned for his dignity!! BTW, the axis of weasels is not now stating that the action should not have been taken, oh no, but is praising the fact that Saddam was put out, essentially agreeing with Bush. Not exactly "consistent" on their part, is it?

Regards, sse

So now it is a war on terror. How easy it is to change the reasons for invading Iraq, when the WMD excuse doesn't pan out, they change it to a war on terror, and forget to mention that the main link with terror in the Middle East was the Saudi's, who Bush is big buddies with. As I recall, 15 out of the 19 9/11 terrorists were linked to Saudi Arabia. But we aren't fighting in Saudi Arabia, so how is this a war on terror?
As for invading Iraq because of the genocide he committed, how many countries that weren't oil rich had much greater instances of genocide throughout the world? Look at South Korea and Liberia, and the genocide in Iraq pales in comparison.

Likewise, the WMD story doesn't hold much credence when you consider that S. Korea has nuclear weapons, and a leader threatening to use them, and we don't have to rush into a war over their WMD's.

I know most of you don't want to remember the truth, but this was a pre-emptive war to prevent Hussein from using his weapons of mass destruction (as stated by Bush). When no weapons were found, it became a war on terror.

If you want to talk about the Kurd genocide, maybe you should remember what president was in office at the time of the genocide, and who ordered our fighters not to intervene in the slaughter of the Kurds. I'll give you a hint, his name was about the same as our current president. Also, it was his generals that allowed Hussein to use helicopters after the war that allowed the troops to catch the Kurds which led to the genocide.

The truth is, Iraq never posed a serious threat to the U.S. If you all really want to believe they did, then you are living in a fantasyland. We saw in the war how incapable the Iraqi army was in defending it's homeland, please don't try to tell me that they posed a serious threat to the U.S.

Unfortunately, I voted for Bush. I am ashamed of the job he has done here and abroad. Who knows, maybe the CIA will pay me a visit tonight for my un-American beliefs. That seems to be the direction this country is headed under Bush.

I don't think the final chapter is in on the WMD. Question: Why were the troops finding masks and other protective gear?

Regards, sse

There is something which I always find strange about politics in places like America and Australia. Either of the two major parties have their cheer squad and to listen to each cheer squad you will be hearing a desire for what amounts to one a one party gov't.

There are two issues at stake and one is yet to unfold and the other has unfolded.

The one that has unfolded is the reason or reasons for going to Iraq. What is scary is that in both America and Australia the fact that either:

1) Our gov't lied or

2) Are totally incompetent or

3) A combination of (1) and (2)

only serves to strengthen the cheer squad!!!!

What has yet to fully unfold is the outcome of the invasion. Let us say it has a spot on outcome. The cheer squad are saying it is OK if gov't lies or is incompetent if the outcome is OK.

Of course the deal is the same with the opposition party and then cheer squad.

Mike

I could give a [bleep] if Dubya is lying through his teeth,with every word.

What I care about,is the fact he's getting the job done. That he bloodies a few noses,steps on a coupla toes and perhaps spins a yarn or two,rate so low on my givvashittometer,as to even barely rate mention.

I believe the man means to do his best for his Country and will use the best approach to realize that. Actions impress me,more than words. Bush used wayyyy more restraint,than what I'd term as "fair",before pounding on Iraq.

Some folks don't understand anything short of an ass whippin' and that Dubya isn't afraid to teach those lessons,pleases me much. All animals can smell weakness and drawing a line in the sand and meaning it,is of much merit IMHO.

I'd surmise that few think he's bluffin' and we are better for it......................

Big Stick,

Something that might suprise is that many people reagrd the approach Bush took as to reserved and politically correct.

A couple of clear messages have been sent.

Firsty, given both the extent and nature of the September 11 attack as well as Bush being endorsed by Americans as the tough guy, America will not get the big gear out.

Secondly, one would have to say with the next US led invasion that America will hand out steet directories as to where to go so you can't be hurt and also guarantee a job for the people. I mean if you were a Syrian you want terrorist living there.

There is no motivation at all for the citizens of these countries to be anti terrorist....just the opposite.

Mike

rickg

You have your Koreas confused. North Korea is the danger and the main problem there is mass starvation. Actually, you have most of your genocides confused. 2 million Christians were killed in Sudan by Muslims during the Clinton era. Now, with Bush in power, they seem to have seen the light as has Libya. Several hundred thousand Rwandans were hacked to death in a short period of time during Clinton's watch. He did not even bother to call a Cabinet meeting. In Yugoslavia, hundreds of thousands of Muslims were killed, raped, and displaced before Clinton acted. You may recall elder Bush chiding Clinton during the debates about his inability to act. He failed to "receive" Osama when 2 countries offered him up to us. Wow, maybe we would not be in the mess we are in had the Democrats ever acted. You think we would have been better off with Gore? While slick willie was napping and being serviced, the world was going to hell with millions dying and suffering and terrorism flourishing. Now, with strong armed action in Iraq and Afghanistan, we at least are seeing some reversals of fortune for the bad guys who were running amuk quite freely during the Clinton years. Clinton's Secretary of State, Madeline Albright said "only 12 Americans were killed" in the 1998 Kenya embassy bombings. Well, she left out the 200 Africans that were killed with thousands more injured. That kind of summed up there foreign policy.

We had solid intelligance about Iraqi WMDs, from a former highly ranked Iraqi General. True we havnt found them yet, but remember this. Iraq denied haveing them before. They violated every UN resolution passed against them, the ones they agreed to when they surrendered after Gulf-1. Every time the Iraqis shot at an Allied war plane they violated the cease fire agreement.

Maybe you cant remember that far back, but this was a war justified by continued Iraqi violations of UN resolutions, put in place after Gulf-I, which "by the way" authorized war "IF" Iraq commited violations. They lied about their WMDs, attempted to hide them, obstructed UN inspectors, constructed missiles of a range that violated the ceasefire agreement, for over 10 years they made a mockery of America, the Gulf War allies, and most of all the United Nations. They never did account for huge stores of Chemical/Bilogical agents, agents that inspectors found concrete evidence that in fact the Iraqis had. The Itaqis themselves never disputed the paper trail that pointed to the existance of these stocks. Even today these agents havnt been found, and the Iraqis havnt accounted for. Who knows where, or who, possess's these horrible agents right now?

So after all this, after all these violations, all this deception, all the Kuwaitis they kidnapped and never accounted for, for trying to kill an American ex-president while he was visiting Kuwait, after all this? What else could we possibly do but invade Iraq and remove Saddam by force? Or should we have passed a few more UN resolutions?

North Korea has nothing to do with Iraq. Its a different problem, a different history, and a tougher nut to crack. We cant attack NK, and possibly kill millions, just to enforce a precident. It may well be America will have to attack NK, but we can only handle one problem at a time. Even the American military has limits, we have a large deployment in the ME, and they are going to be there awhile.

In NK the terrain is more difficult, the enemy tougher, and tho Im sure we can destroy them is NOW the right time? Besides China and Russia have a vested interest in NK moderateing their position. Quite diplomacy worked in Libya, maybe it'll work in NK.

""""""""""If you want to talk about the Kurd genocide, maybe you should remember what president was in office at the time of the genocide, and who ordered our fighters not to intervene in the slaughter of the Kurds. I'll give you a hint, his name was about the same as our current president. Also, it was his generals that allowed Hussein to use helicopters after the war that allowed the troops to catch the Kurds which led to the genocide."""""""""""

So how does Bush sr, haveing been in office at this time, point to culpability on his part regarding gassing the Kurds? Does that mean Roosevelt was guilty of gassing the Jews, in WWII, cause he was an American president at the time? BTW Reagan was in office when the Kurds were first gassed, the gas was delivered by war planes, our "fighters" were no-where around Iraq at the time, it happened shortly after the Iran/Iraq war and BEFORE Iraq invaded Kuwait, and whos generals allowed Hussein "to use helicopters after the war that allowed the troops to catch the Kurds which led to the genocide."

And what in earth are you babbleing about?

Before you bad mouth your president you should break out a history book and at least have some actual facts at your command prior to opening your mouth. Frankly I find about everything your saying to be either paranoid, delusional, or both. The CIA is prevented, By Law, against operateing on US soil against US citizens.

""""""""""Unfortunately, I voted for Bush. I am ashamed of the job he has done here and abroad. Who knows, maybe the CIA will pay me a visit tonight for my un-American beliefs""""""""""

Man its pitiful how the Liberal/leftist media can distort a human mind like this.................10

It's obvious that the folks who were against the war in the first place are still pissed off. They really only have the one issue to press, the lack of WMD's to date.

I don't expect them to change there opinions, but to ignore the sucess that has taken place is beyond my comprehension.

Let them bitch, it's their right.

Spike

I would like to know where you get off directing a post to another member (mainly Haggis) and branding him a "[bleep] liberal puke-bag"
.What gives you the right to pesonaly insult someone for their political views and for questioning the actions of your president . I will tell you what gives you the right , it is the same reason he has the right to ask those questions and that is that you both live in a democracy. My read on your posts are that you dont belive that anyone should question your government there is a name for that also it is called a dictatorship. The only reason America exsists as a democracy is that sombody in the past had the guts to question the current government, if that hadn,t have happened chances are you would be talking with a British accent . America as a democratic nation existed long before George W. Bush and hopefully will last long after he is gone , that will only happen if people have the freedom to think and act as they please(within reason of course). That said I agree with you in the fact that the president did what he had to do in order to protect the U.S. and a good portion of the rest of the world . So I guess what I am trying to say is argue, question, debate as much as you want but lose the pesonal insults and the "my way is the only way attitude because that just get you one step closer to the one thing you don't want---a nation under a Saddam like rule.

Peace
Boondock