Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Newbie technical questions.

My goal;
1) Shoot ground hogs at 1000 yrds and get into the 1000 yard club of the VHA
2) AND- not mortgage the farm to do it.

I figure if I accomplish this goal I will be a "proficient" rifleman able to hold my own in most realistic situations.

So... I gots lots of questions, mostly of a greenhorn and stupid nature! heh heh heh

For starts, I have a remington 308VS and a Ken Farrel 20 degree base, all sitting in the box, never touched.

So here goes for starts;

Which scope? And what knob options. I don't understand zeroing the Leupold knobs.

What about reticles?

What about the minimum accuracy of the rifle itself, do you have to tune it up to less than 1/2 MOA to even hope to shoot at 1000 yards?

Why doesn't Leupold offer 1/8" click adjustments? Why are all tactical scopes 1/4" clicks?

Is there a book that addresses all of this for morons? heh heh, I guess what I am saying is that I am stumbling over the very basic elements here and I don't want to shell out 800 to a 1000 bucks on scope and gunsmith work to realize later I went in the wrong direction to begin with.

Can you help a knucklehead out here????

Thanks

Any "good" scope will do but there are features that will make life a bit easier. By "good" scope I mean one that is mechanically sound and will track repeatable after much cranking on the elevation and windage adjustments.

You can use the coin slot variety elevation and windage adjustments and buy aftermarket "Stoney Point" type add-on if you desire. You can get a varmint type scope with "target" turrets already installed. The actual mechanism used to adjust the scope is probably of little consequence for varminting (in the beginning), the understanding is what you're after.

If I were after groundhogs at 1000 yards I'd be looking at a scope in the 20 to 25 power range when adjusted to the "high" end, less power will work too but you'd eventually feel the need to try the 20 to 25 power models too. I'd get "target" turrets for both windage AND elevation. Also need parallax adjustment option.

Depending on what else you're going to be using the rifle/scope conbination for will dictate the reticle style. I use MilDot or MOA style "ranging" reticles. This allows for a spotter to give accurate corrections and also allows for measurement and "hold-overs" and "hold-offs" if you choose. These reticles also allow for repeatable "hold-offs" for moving target shooting. If you buy a "calibrated" ballistic type reticle it will be a "near" guess to the proper trajectory and probably be counter-productive when first learning long range precision & accurate shooting.

A groundhog is about 5 inches across and 15 inches tall when "alert" and upright. This is about .5 MOA wide and 1.5 MOA tall at 1000 yards. Your rifle does not need to be .5 MOA to eventually kill a groundhog at 1000 yards but it would sure help.

Your 308 VS shold be able to get down to .5 on a good day with consistant loads, your marksmanship will improve while tuning the rifle and loads on shorter range targets and goundhogs.

Two main factors to hit at 1000 yards... Precision & Accuracy. A small group at 1000 yards is of little consequence if it way off target. There must be a marriage of precision and accuracy to make things work out. Your equipment provides the precision and the marksman provides the accuracy. You'll need a bit of practice at wind and such but that comes easy enough and you'll be constantly reminded to pay attention.

Forget about shooting light fast bullets and stick with the high BC mid weight bullets. The 175 Sierra MatchKing is probably the chioce of most 308 Win shooters, the 155 Palma is good and Lapua makes a fine offering in the 155 Scenar.

1/8th MOA "click" scopes often don't offer enough elevation and windage adjustment for 1000 yard shooting. The 1/4 MOA variety is often used and is what I personally prefer. There are .5 MOA and 1 MOA adjustment scopes too but they'll be a bit of a problem for something like a groundhog at 1000 yards. Best stick with 1/4 MOA adjustment scopes for abit. (Tactical scopes come in .25, .5, and 1MOA adjustment.)
Tactical scopes are generally made for shooting somewhat close (under 200 yards or so) for police and sometimes rather far for miltary. The size of the intended Point Of Impact zone often dictates the adjustment coarseness. Military Tactical scopes are sometines 1 MOA and these are plenty accurate and provide very fast adjustment for the shooter... a human torso is a rather large target and 1 MOA adjustment works fine mostly.

There are many books, "Precision shooting at 1000 yards" is one.

Find a range near you that offers NRA High Power shooting and go watch those folks for a bit. Visit some of the other Precision Shooting sites on the Internet, Benchrest Central, Sniper Country, Long Range Hunting... these have a lot of info on equipment, techniques and procedures.

Good luck and have fun.

DF, as you know if you read the post below, I am not a long ranger but wander over to this part of the forum occasionally. FWIW there is an article in the Jan/Feb 2004 RifleShooter magazine--www.rifleshootermag.com-- about getting started in 1000 yard shooting at lowest possible cost with equipment suggestions and a lot of source contact info. The author is Bruce Gray--perhaps some of the boys on this forum know if he's worth listening to or not. Merry Christmas.

Steve;
Thankyou very much for the magazine reference. I will get a copy.

William;
Thankyou for the informative post. Hey- you know what, I used to work for Frederick Air and gave several estimates in Damascus. Since then I moved up across the border into PA. If I remember right one of my estimates was for a fellow that kept bee hives. BUT I may have that one mixed up with Adamstown MD. Do you ever go up to Williamsport PA? Do you ever rub shoulders with Bruce Baer? Thanks again.

Steve;
I found the magazine and the article. Thanks for the tip. I had never bought a copy of this mag before. Good article by David Tubb on Natural Point of Aim, along with an article by Boddington.

The 1000 yard article the fellow writes up a Remington 700VLS in 308 with a Springfield Armory 6x20x56 tactical scope. He says the scope goes for 800 dollars.

Real interesting looking scope. I am wondering if Springfield Armory Scopes have improved in tracking.

Also, I am wondering about that 56 mm objective. I would assume that you have to get a raised cheek piece add on eventually to shoot that scope.

You're welcome--I've found that to be a pretty good magazine--at least they don't waste a lot of time on "30-06 vs .270" and that kind of crap. You do see some recycled articles, and of course you've got Craig Boddington who seems to be everywhere--often informative, but often repetitive. I won't be surprised if I find him in my wife's Vogue, that's about the ony mag I haven't seen him in. btw I'd have to get a ladder to use a 56mm objective scope.

Boddington in Vogue-
You got me laughing out loud on that one.

Dixie, if I were you, I'd be sure to get the scope with tactical turrets installed, not the Stony Points. Actually, I should have said I'd get the Leupold with same. Good luck.