Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles .338-06 AI

To start with, I have always stayed out of Ackley Improved arguments because I never owned one before. Now I do have one. I kn0w for a fact, now,that there are a lot of people that do not understand what AI is about. For instance: �...if you load to the same pressure, you will get the same velocity...� My only comment is that you need to read Vol 1 of PO Ackley�s manual. He has covered that subject thoroughly.

What is more important is the *way* AI handles the pressure. It takes it off the bolt face and distributes it radially against the chamber wall. This works. The first sign of excess pressure will now be a leaking or blown primer. Pressure tests by POA indicate that this is about 63,500 psi. In addition to what POA says in Vol 1, read this discussion by David White:

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5813&page=2 Post #26

This difference really threw me when I started loading for this piece. there were never any of the usual signs. Finally, I got the P high enough. I didn�t know it until I was loading the cases again. There was very, very little resistance seating the primer. POA says that 1 grain below this point is Max for this combo. So I lowered the charge 1 gr and next time at the range, one of the primers fell out in the magazine. So I went back and started with new brass and here is the result:



This is a 300 yd group. 1 1/16 inches. The rifle I bought from Mud Bogger on the Campfire. It is a CZ 550 Minnesota, rebarreled by IT&D with a #5 Douglas CrMo @ 25 inches. The load is Fed brass, 4.35 cc H4350, F210GM, 250 SGK ~.025 off the lands. Shot off of the bed cover on the back of my truck.

Whether you think that fireforming brass is too much trouble, that is for you to decide. As for me, I am happy with what I�ve got...

I own several A.I. and love them.
my only suggestion to you is dump the Federal brass. it's soft and the primer pockets loosen up very quickly. I found this out with my 30-30 AI. I switched to Remington brass. Same load, same velocity, much longer case life

V.ant,

Thanks for the tip. How many loadings are you getting from the Rem cases? Until I stretched the case head, I got 20 from the Fed. I annealed after 10. Then I noticed it was softer.

I have probably another 150 empty Fed cases. I bought some Lapua brass that was on sale, but I think it will be a while before i get to it.

I getting a 338-06AI made as I write this post-should be ready by end of this month. Went with the suggestions from my Gunsmith and a moderator off the Nosler forum site. It will be a 24" SS PacNor barrel with 6 flutes. The flutes will be powder coated and the remaining barrel will be bead-blasted to look like an original factory SS barrel. The barrel will be on a Sako m75 Greywolf (IV action) that was a new 25-06. I have a Leupold VX3 3.5-10x40 Gunmental Grey scope for it.

I plan on trying 225gr Accubonds and maybe the 210 TTSX.
Whats the best brass to use-Winchester or Remington 30-06 (brass or nickel plated) or should a person buy some of the Norma 338-06AS to have the headstamp? What powders do you guys reccommend to try?

I cant wait for my new rifle!! A hunting buddy of mine will get one built next year on a Winchester action.

Thanks for any input.

MP,

You won't be sorry! Most guys here use RE15, and H4350. H414 works really well, but is temp sensitive. Where you live that won't make a lot of difference.

Tell your friend that if he is going to stick to lighter bullets he should inquire of the gunsmith about 1 in 12" twist. Mine is 1-10". Built for 250 grainers.

If you can get the Norma with 338-06 AI headstamp, by all means go for it. I use 30-06 and don't have any problems.

Thanks for the info. My buddy and his family is heading back east to Ontario this week for holidays pulling the holiday trailer. They plan to cut down thru the USA - faster to where they want to go in Ontario that way-maybe I he has time (I know he will as he is a Gun Nut) he can get some 338-06 brass.

[quote=DSC]MP,
Tell your friend that if he is going to stick to lighter bullets he should inquire of the gunsmith about 1 in 12" twist. Mine is 1-10". Built for 250 grainers.

If you can get the Norma with 338-06 AI headstamp

[/quote

Personally, I can't imagine doing a 12 in a 338/06 and or about any other 33 for that matter. I'd used the 338/06, 338 WSM, the 338 and the 340 and a couple of bigger boys and the 10 is what I've always used. They'll perk with the 180's to the 300's.

Now about the Norma AI brass were you just boshin or can you really get it?

Thx Dober

DSC-one other thing, it appears like your rig may shoot, I'd like to see it repeated in order to confirm it however...grins

Also, my gosh a 25" #5, holy moly I bet you about need a lifting belt...

Dober

DSC
That is some mighty fine shooting.
DSC, at what increments do you set wind flags out? One thing that always bollaxes up my 300 yard groups is here in Montana, over a 300 yard course, the wind will be blowing left to right at 50 yards, and completely opposite at 100 yards, then change twice more to 300 yards. Also, from one shot to the next, its unlikely that the breeze will be the same. Also, what type of wind flags do you use? I usuallt just watch the flagging tape on rods at the range, but they are not precise enough.
Thanks for the info.

Fred

I considered building an "AI" version when I was thinking about a .338-06, but went with the standard case and am happy I did. If I really needed more oomph, I'd go to the Win Mag case.

I hunted Alaska with a .338-06 (standard) for two decades and loved it (still do). The AI version is sexier, but it only gives about 100 fps more velocity at the same pressure. That isn't enough to matter in the field, but either .338-06 version is capable of comfortably taking any game in NA with the right bullets. I'm sure the guys with the new rifles - AI or not - will have a blast!




.

Welcome DR!
What bullet did you use?

Dober,

I am not a gunsmith, but I have heard, maybe not correctly, that Lilja recommends 1-12 for shooting lighter bullets only. It will sure cut out shooting the 250's. I said for him to ask about it. I have not used anything but 250's so far. As far the headstamp MP mentioned, I have never heard of it either. You can probably get it made from these folks: http://www.qual-cart.com/headstamp.htm expensive is my guess.

For repeatability: That group was shot July 4, (in celebration of the 2nd Amendment) If I go back with that load soon at 300 yds, I'll post what it does. This is a 200 yd group shot about a week before:



The three to the right are 1,2, & 3. About 3/4 inch. With #4 it makes about 1 1/16. I'll explain below.

As for the weight, I am 6' 3" & 225. I would be a sissy if I couldn't handle it. What do African guns weigh? Kit Carson was 5' 9" & 160 and his rifle was 13 lbs.

Royce,

I have had a hard time waiting for someone to ask that question! I won't lie to you, here are the details:

I live on a prairie too. The wind blows a lot here, usually when the weather is going to change. All Spring it was very hard. Several things: Where I shoot targets is next to the dam on a Corps of Engineers lake. It will block the North wind, but not the South. At 300 yds I am passed the end of the dam. No flags but the grass is a foot high all the way down and an excellent indicator. Please don't think that I could dope into 1 1/16 in a 20 mph wind. It was perfectly still on the days of both of these targets.

I am testing for a load that will shoot in the gun here. This gun seems to shoot just about anything into MOA. My main problems have been barrel heat and holding still. This time of year it is 75-78�F At 6 AM. The sun is up on a black barrel very quickly. No more shooting for that day. I have one cheater: I work up loads using an ancient Leu 24X that I got on Ebay. It makes all the difference.

On the 200 yd target, #4 could be barrel heat or poor hold. It is very hard to wait for a completely cool barrel. On the 300 yd target, left and bottom are #3&4. Same thing. It is hard to see that time of day. Notice the drift to the right from 200 to 300. Sight windage is the same. Elev is up 3 minutes. Any breeze would have been from the left. I wasn't aware of any. Maybe drift is from the bullet spin. I don't know.

I never shoot at 100. My goals would be met with a load that shot 1 1/2 @ 100, 1 3/4 @ 200, and 2 1/4 or so @ 300. I obviously hit the jackpot with this combination!!! Soon I will change scopes to 6X FX III w/ dots, move to the other side of the dam and shoot at the rocks from 4-500 with a laser rangefinder for more practice. Plenty of wind on that side of the dam...

Teeder, I used the Nosler 210 Partition almost exclusively. I did take a few deer with down-loaded 200 Speers (2550 fps) but since there were usually brownies in the areas I hunted I preferred the tougher Nosler bullet at full velocity just in case. Never shot anything larger than a bull moose with the rifle.....



.

Thanks! If I ever get through the mountain of Speer 200's that I have (which haven't let me down), I'll probably start loading the 210 PT. It seems that bullet and cartridge were made for each other.

I only got 7 loads from the Federal brass before they loosed up, I'm on lucky #13 on my Remington brass and they still feel the same as the first load. But if you got 20 loads from your Federal brass I'd say it works very well for you.

I learned some leasons about the 338-06,and would recomend the AI version. Using Federal brass and 3.340 box,I found compressed loads of W760 went slower,no where near the 2600 for 225s. If you use the AI version ,a 4350 powder will get the velocity without presure questions.If you use lighter Winchester(weigh it first,I have some that weighs the same as Remington) brass you can get some more room.

Agreed. AI has it all over standard. I can neck size brass with absolutely no (zero) problems with insertion or extraction. I can have *accurate* loads at velocities that are max for standard. Pressure is no problem.