Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Turok, do you buy a licence??

Big shtick-As I said previously you live in a different country with different laws and you neither understand our canadian laws nor have you earned the right to make judgements on them.Come live here for a few years and pay our taxes then you will have earned the right to judge our law.

But since you seem like such a nice guy I will make the same offer to you that you made to me.By the way bring your handgun and be sure to let me know when you will be crossing the border into canada so I will be home to meet you.

Be thankfull for the rights you have and quit looking to see what the other kids have on their plates. I am sure when those treaties were written by our (White) early leaders they thought they were getting the best of the deal. And by God they did: think about it. We could be the ones living on the reserves. If the native peoples back then had known they should have gotten a lawyer to look over those treaties, we would most likely not be having this conversation.
BTW I don't have quad either. ... A fellow Albertan.

colt357-You sound like a liberal.If you don't vote liberal you at least share their veiws about being happy with things the way they are without thinking about how much better they could be.Those views are why canada will always be held back from being the great country it could be.Did you even complain when c-68 came into law or did you support it because it could have been worse?By the way I have a quad and I paid for it GST and all.

Stubblejumper, singling out Turok to vent your dissatisfaction is a chickenshit thing to do.

You and Mauser96 could have opened this topic without taking a shot out of the blue at a fellow board member.

Reading his posts and yours says a lot about both of you...and you're not coming out ahead.

dave

Isn't there a political board or forum somewhere for this type of discussion?
Yeah, I know, I could have just skipped over this thread and not read about the pissing and moaning, but when someone puts this much vitriol into a thread about something nobody here has any control over, much less cares about, then I guess I thought it might be interesting to read.
The only thing interesting so far is what it is showing me about a couple posters on this thread.
Stubblepumper, while venting and pissing and moaning might make you feel better (somehow I doubt it), it sure isn't getting you anywhere. If you're not involved in trying to change the system then your just treading water and not going anywhere. It doesn't really matter if we have lived under your system or not, you are the one living under your laws and bitching about it so I guess you're the one who needs to do something about it.
Hate to try making sense and ruin a perfectly good mad you got going, but that is just my humble opinion. - Sheister

How was my question "taking a shot at fellow board member"??

It was a simple enough question.....................

-The bottom Line- If you are born of a certain race in Canada you get special rights. End of story. Is this right? Only a racist person would think so.

Funny to watch all the 'mericans reply to a Canadian thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,







when in reality they know so little about aboriginal rights in Canada.

Ya, there is a lack of understanding how things realy work, not only from the Americans but also from urban (Liberal) Canadians.

I think that I can understand where Mauser96 and stubblejumper are coming from . Here in B.C. the native community are making some really outrageous demands on our government and the people living here . It is commonly thought and to a certian extent proven that if the government was to hand over all the land and resources that the natives claim as there ancestral lands that the natives would own 150% precent of B.C. . Now the big question is would they know how to harnse those resouces that they are demanding (mining ,gas ,oil,timber) if the white man hadn't shown him how. Kinda a catch 22 if you ask me . On the Other hand the White man did introduce a [bleep] load of bad things apon them such as smallpox and alcohol (trust me it is a sad truth that native geneoligy and alcohol don't mix). So who is wrong and who is right ? I personaly belive that like everything else we always tend to see the few natives that make it look bad for the rest of the decent ones such as I think Turok might be .And lets face it who here would turn down an offer to hunt a little more for a little less --or get a vehicle for free ---or not to have to pay taxes ,I know I wouldn't turn it down and I think anybody that says the would is lying . What it comes down to folks is that the natives have to stop demandind so much and the white man has to be a little more tolerant and understanting of thier culture.

Boondock

Sheister is right, but as a dual citizen who gets to complain about both sides of the line I'll exercise my freedom of expression before this fizzles. A legal contract is binding, and neither side can change it without consent of the other. Some folks traded the real estate of a continent for binding legal contracts regarding bits of land, education, tax exemptions on that land (but usually not off of it), hunting rights and such.

BC. is the odd case in that there is no contract or full treaty for much of the land!

Where there are binding contracts, they haven't been very binding, at least for one side. The party of the government has changed the contract often, the other side never has had any power to do so unless BC courts set a precedent and rule that original inhabitants never signed their land away. That's a potential tangle that terrifies politicians, with good reason. These contractual treaties have created problems for both sides, unintended consequences from the sloppy deals forced on folks who bartered the only assets they had. It is costing more than anticipated and creating resentment in folks like Stubblejumper. It is also subsidizing some negatives on the recipient side, as most First Nation leaders will tell you.

How to solve it is a problem that better minds than mine have struggled with and will continue to do so. On some points eventually, both sides will have to budge to save resources for their own benefit. Or, the government can scrap the old arrangements by decree and force, as most invaders in history have done. Curiously, it is the treaties themselves, of a grudgingly generous kind seldom seen in the history of invaders, the very treaties that tried to clothe the actions in propriety, that are now a burr under the saddle.

If you were status, Stubblejumper, would you sign over your legal rights? How would you respond to anyone changing the terms of a contract they have with you, to take those benefits away? For example, are you willing to give up health care? Would you just sign it away and be like the Americans, or maybe have some folks vote it away from you? If Bill Gates uses his assets to set up a perpetual fund for his offspring, should we take it away from them in a generation or three because they are getting benefits I'm not? (Kennedys, Rockefellers, Rothchildes... )

Fair? Who said anything about fair in a binding legal contract that both sides signed. That's a fact we keep bumping into, sort of like stubbing a toe when we thought we had the steps smooth. I don't know all the answers but doing wrong won't make things right.

Meanwhile, poachers and slob hunters are poachers and slob hunters whatever their genetics.

Yeah,I would have replied to it earlier, but then I realized it was a [color:"red"]CANADIAN [/color] thread. WTF???? You guys aren't posting on any [color:"red"] 'MERICAN [/color] threads are ya? Fer crissakes!

""""""""""Funny to watch all the 'mericans reply to a Canadian thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yeah, this is a good one. We go round about with an American thread on these boards and Canadians post like they have US Constitutional rights. We have some insight into Native rights and abuses cause we have a pile of them here. Be they "Natives" from Africa, or ones that made the trek down the Siberian land bridge. Now these people want us to make reparations for slavery? And other 300yo social ills?

I dont fish in certain lakes anymore cause come spring the natives are out there with their high-tech bass boats and spotlights sticking spears into 50" spawning muskies. I always wondered if they are so "into connecting with their heritage" why they dont paddle canoes out and use the light of the moon.

Personaly I side with the opinions of white Canadians, being a m/02 myself. We have enough affirmative action,busing,food stamps, native American flim-flams...ect in this country to make any Liberal Canadian a Republican.

Anyway its all beyond my control. I'd rather extend a hand of friendship to Turok then dump on him. You cant blame natives for takeing advantage of our mush Govt.'s . And "Treaty Rights" are the law no matter what you think of them.

But you know Ive been up to Canada a few times. Talk about a country ran by a bunch of mush-heads. They make our Politicians look like Einsteins..............10

okanagan-Lets look at your statement



If you were status, Stubblejumper, would you sign over your legal rights? How would you respond to anyone changing the terms of a contract they have with you, to take those benefits away? For example, are you willing to give up health care? Would you just sign it away and be like the Americans, or maybe have some folks vote it away from you?



You don't have to be status for the government to take things away from you.The government is constantly breaking promises to the people and taking things away from us.I pointed out the income tax situation earlier and the broken promise to cancel the GST.How do you feel about c-68?As for our health care it keeps losing ground every day and is no longer much to be proud of.It may be free but many treatments require long waiting lists where people often die before their turn comes.There are other treatments that are simply not available in canada at any price.A friend from work had to go to a cancer clinic in Texas for treatment because they could do nothing for him in canada.He is alive today as a result and was happy to pay to stay alive.Our health care is being taken away a little at a time and eventually it will be no better than the american system.The only difference is that we will still pay much higher taxes to pay for it.At one time canadas standard of living was rated at the top but it has now dropped at least six places in the last few years.

As far as having things voted away from me that happens constantly.I live in western canada and with the voting power in ontario and quebec it makes no difference how western canada votes.





As for this turning into a political discussion look at the original questions posed by mauser96 and myself .They could have been answered with a simple yes and status.Turok simply can't pass up a chance to put that university education to work in turning this into a full blown political discussion just as he has always done in the past.

That being said I too have grown tired of this thread and will take my leave.

These arguments regarding "primitive bows" etc., make me shake my head. Do you REALLY believe that native americans wouldn't have made advancements on their own over the past several hundred years or taken them from other cultures, even IF the whites "lost" and gone home?

This kind of argument implies that the chinese should be the only race allowed to utilize gunpowder.

"""""""""These arguments regarding "primitive bows" etc., make me shake my head. Do you REALLY believe that native americans wouldn't have made advancements on their own over the past several hundred years or taken them from other cultures, even IF the whites "lost" and gone home?""""""'

Probably not! I mean name one modern invention, or improved upon one, that Native people have developed anywhere in the world. When whitey first came here these people didnt even have a name for a wheel, or know what one was. Do you think they would have developed firearms, gunpowder, mettalurgy, telegraph...ect on their own? Or perhaps you caould name a native culture anywhere that did?

This isnt a put down, or an insult. Its a simple historical fact that I suspect you'd have a hard time argueing with. These were traditional,primitive,tribal peoples who kept to traditional ways. Hell until 1581 they didnt even know what a horse was, or what to do with it. People see "Dances with Wolves" and they think they are experts on Great Plains Indians. What a crock! The truth is prior to Europeans arriveing these people were more farmers then hunters. The great "horse culture" spoken of in that movie lasted little more then 200 years. These were people that would trade their children for the use of a horse, "southern Ute tribe". Does that sound like a modernizeing people ?

"If" Europeans never arrived on this continent the Native Americans would be living much the same as they did 450 years ago. There wouldnt be rifles, bass boats, whiskey, DVDs, Ford 150s, or spear guns. Mind you there are also many things I admire about these people.

Personaly, and again no insult, Im tired of the "victimization" of people who I dont much see doing anything except getting high all the time,collecting welfare , maeking babys,and buying lottery tickets.

Your not going to get any sympathy from me, for wrongs commited hundreds of years ago. Get your asses out and get a job, pay taxes, raise your kids decent, learn what personal responsabilty is, and play by the rules the rest of us play by.

Im sorry but it needed to be said. "Real History" isnt exactly the same as the "revisionist History" taught by these Liberal-commie-bomb throwing-Politcaly correct clowns in these colleges................10

Stubblejumper, I made the analogy with health care to make the toic personal, but it is a weak sister comparison to treaty rights. Health care is a benefit Canadian polticians developed like any other domestic social care legislation. They did it to get votes and nearly all Canadians like when it works. I mentioned because it is a benefit most of us would hate to part with. But health care is changeable at any time, a very different kind of law than a fixed, binding contract like a treaty.

They did develop the bow on their own. Whether or not they were behind other cultures in the "invention" game is not the point. Humans are an inventive group of people. They'd of gotten there eventually.

Well, DUH! Horses weren't there!

Where do you think the English would be today if they'd of stayed in England and relied on their own selves? Romans and the Chinese were FAR ahead of the English at one point. Many countries benefited by the conquering Roman empire.

The ability to travel was the stepping stone to the age of "invention." The cultures who were in contact built upon one another and great things happened. The only thing holding native american cultures back at that time was their state of isolation.

BTW, you might want to check the definition of "native." Chinese are natives to China. English are natives of England. What you seem to want to point out is the superiority of your own race. Well, Heil Hitler!!!!

I don't mean to lump you in with Hitler, but it's this kind of "whites are superior" mentality that allowed him to come to power. Frankly, I think it sucks.

BTW, please don't consider my rants as an endorsement of either side of the "real" issue being discussed here. It's a complicated issue that I don't have enough knowledge of to comment on.

It's simply the "my race is superior" crap that gets me bent out of shape.

Well, I see hunting season is over for a lot of folks and the silly season has begun. Will tell the wifey to start on a Chocolate cake, as I suspect, much will be eaten, before the season starts again. :-) TM