Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa How was the 24HR camfire hunt in ZIM for PAC ele & Buffalo

Good one Rick. I'm taking time out from heating up the tar now!

Feckin' good one Ric!!!!!

Don't try to CY [bleep] A like that! No doubt you offered that same little cover your azz disclaimer BEFORE the hunt. RIGHT? You endorsed this deal the moment you allowed the 24 hour hunt title to be utilized. Expressed and implied warranties certainly could apply to you. It's a funny little thing about disclosing information, you have to do it before the deal goes to schit not after. It's entirely feasable and reasonable to conclude that those involved may well have accepted a hunt with terms like this solely or at least partially based on the faith and trust of the campfire name.

I am rolling on the floor laughing my azz off!!!

Congrats Shakari!!!

JPK

Sometimes my sense of humour just gets the better of me and I just can't help myself......

With fall approaching, a load of feathers is easy to procure.

Time for me to lock up my (bleep)ing tea chests....... (bleep)ing colonials!

JPK,

On a more serious note (for a second or two) might I recommend a Surefire Kroma as a very useful tool on your Leopard hunt.

Hi: On a lighter note. You are on your Honeymoon you only need one pair of underwear and a T for shopping etc. Sorry could not help myself. Regards Dan

I got ahold of Tim by phone today. He told me some of what went on but he will be answering all of the concerns via e-mail to me within a few days and I will post his reply here when I get it. He may have tried to send it already but e-mails are a bit scetchy even now. We will see what is forthcoming.

Mark,
It will be interesting to see if he still maintains the position that neither the lack of permits or a camp are his fault.

I know I don't have a dog in this hunt, but I have hunted in Zimbabwe. The questions that come to my mind are:
1) Why use a booking agent, if he isn't held responsible (either financially or otherwise) when things go wrong?

2) Why, after the hunts that went sour previously with this particular hunting outfit/PH/whatever Tim Shultz is, did the agent continue to book hunts with him?

3) How were the previous hunts with Schultz that went bad addressed by the booking agent? For example, did the booking agent respond positively and work out an mutually acceptable with the previous clients, or were their complaints felled on deaf ears?

I had a wonderful hunt in Zimbabwe with HHK Safaris. It was in a great conservancy, huge tract of wild lands and so much interesting wild game that I was in awe the whole time. My agent held monies and made sure I was satisfied before reaching a "close-out" agreement with the outfitter/PH.

If the booking agent is only a portal to send money to the PH, which I don't believe they are, then why not arrange hunts direct and save the booking agent's fee? I used a booking agent because I knew I had a written contract with him if something went wrong I had legal/financial recourse here in the USA, and someone would be held responsible.

Without someone being liable for a truely f'ed situation, I can see no reason to go through a booking agent... Booking agents make money from outfitters/PHs by handing over clients to them without the outfitter/PH having to mess with the communications and paperwork. However, for the clients paying the premium of using the agent, there should be some responsibility on the part of the agent to insure the client isn't sold a bridge in BFE without delivery. When previous clients start having problems and those are either ignored or otherwise cast aside, any future bookings by the agent seems to be an accomplice in the fraud to future clients.

Yeah...and I'm also sure Rick gets rich from letting you post here for free...

Seems that nobody remembers T-I-A...ZIM is about the best example of this. Don'cha love the new "majority rule" sweeping Africa? If you have gobbs of loot to throw at a safari, chances are that all will be perfect. Honor and good will mean nothing anymore, with a very few exceptions. I found that out early on in dealing with safari outfitters.

Another thing I learned was easy given promises often mean a measured lack of candor when dealing with ANY outfitter, here, there, anywhere.

I feel Mark acted in good faith, but remember, T-I-A; it ins't just a quaint saying.

My 2cents worth. It is quite possible that Safariman was just as much a victim as the paying hunters. I've had two excellent hunts with Steyn Safaris out of Barberton, SA. Both of these hunts were absolutely fantastic. I found the Steyns to be honest, hardworking professionals. If Abie (my PH) tells you, that he can get you within 20 yards of a buff, Believe It (he got me within 8 meters of a herd). If your chances for leopard are less than 20% over bait, he will tell you up front. I would book with them in a minute. However, that doesn't mean I will always get a super hunt, but I do believe they will never cheat me or misrepresent the current situations.

But as someone said, "hunting is not a sure thing". That is true, but misrepresenting the area "oh, its full of buffalo", when there hasn't been a fresh track in months, is not "just hunting", it is blatant "lying".

Should Safariman be responsible for outcome of the hunts? Not unless he knew in advance that the areas to be hunted were less than desirable.

As for the outfitter, the fact that a land owner wouldn't let him hunt his place, because the outfitter still owed him money, says it all for me.

One of the side effects of the Zimbabwe political situation, is that white people are leaving in droves. Those that are still there, are probably trying to get as much money as possible before they decide to abandon their homes and businesses.

Although ZIM still has areas with a lot of game and good tariffs, things seem to be spiraling downhill at a faster rate.

Just my thoughts.

TIM SCHULTZ'S REPLY:

Hi Mark

Regards Kanak and company, I am highly pissed off with what these guys have posted on the internet. If they had spoken to me before going as far as they have I would have considered some form of compensation towards their hunts, but their reports are damaging. I was in camp with Kanak and Matheson for at least a week and not once whilst I was there did they complain or mention they were unhappy in any way. Nobody was booted out of camp in the middle of the night as Kanak states (outright lie), I decided to move out of the camp we were using because I was not happy with the camp managers attitude, my client and Matheson moved camp at lunch time during the day and whilst we were hunting in the afternoon met Kanak's hunting crew and told them we had moved camp, so that when they finished hunting they just had to collect their stuff and move camp which of course was in the evening so they did not have to lose any hunting time. I might add that when we were packed and leaving camp, the camp manager said that there was no need to leave but by then the damage was done by telling the clients that there were only goats, donkeys and cattle in the area, so I arranged another camp.

As regards to hunting elephant, my client and I in 6 days hunting in the same area saw numerous elephant and three times came upon elephant with at least 45lb tusks, my client eventually shot a 50lb + elephant. My understanding is that Kanak would have been happy with a 40lb. My client then went on to shoot a 43" sable and 39" buffalo with 13" solid bosses, the following hunt after Kanak and company, a 190lb leopard with 16 and half " skull was taken as well as 2 huge hippo and 2 11 foot crocodiles and 2 very good solid boss buffalo, not bad for a goat, donkey, snare infested area!!!!

Matheson has no room to talk, he had already shot his non-trophy elephant and a very nice buffalo by the time I got to camp, the trackers that he talks about were my trackers that I took over, he had a 3rd tracker (Jeremiah) who had been with him all the time who I might add is very experienced, the skinner who went with them was Sylvester, my top skinner who also fills in as a tracker and is very experienced in his own right. I would like to know where Matheson read about this area as it comes under Matetsi which is prime hunting area. It is part of a campfir area and I did not think it was an issue, you do see goats and donkeys in campfire areas. Once again Matheson never once suggested he was unhappy even when asked. How could I even try to improve things if these guys did not let anyone know how they felt.

As for Dale Strong he still shot his animals he was contracted to hunt, but he was also very negative from the start, how do you please a guy like this? It did not help that he had an idiot for a professional hunter but unfortunately that was my mistake.

Regards Sengwe I and II, We pulled out of this area very recently on short notice as an army base was established down there after the elections and there was a lot of intimidation towards the locals, as it is an opposition party stronghold we did not think it would be safe to have any clients in that environment at the time therefore relinquished our rights to hunt there, we have not hunted there this year at all. Also, a government minister is wanting to control these areas to sell hunts and it is unadvisable to be in competition with these people.

We hunt all our buffalo and elephant in Omay North and Matetsi near Victoria Falls. I will send you pictures of animals taken in these areas.

On the lighter side of things Bianca shot her first non-trophy elephant with a heart-lung shot from a 375 winchester, we then had to shoot a charging elephant in self defense and dropped it at 8 paces, exciting stuff - her first experience with shooting an elephant and a charge, good experience!!

Best regards

Tim


I will add that this is essentially what Tim told me on the telephone a couple of days ago. In essence that the decision to change area's was made in the best interest of the hunters safety and quality of hunting experience. On the phone I was advised that the army guys were shooting up the game as well and making things pretty wierd. He also tells me that the camp manager who was so rude to everyone told him that there WERE non trophy ele on quota in the area and Tim was not advised that there were not until very late in the game. Tim did his best at a trying time to get something done and getting permits to hunt Ele in the nearby park (legally, under PAC rules) was the best option available to him and took a lot of footwork by his office staff to pull off in such a short amount of time.

I was not there, unfortunately, so I cannot comment much beyond what I have already said, I am just presenting Tims side of things including what I have from a phone call from him plus the e-mail that I cut and pasted as promised.

It looks as though a big part of the problems experienced came from the camp manager who sounds like a plant from PITA or something like that. Maybe a guy with a power trip emotional problem. Hunt was placed there on short notice based upon this guys reprsentations RE good hunting, non trophy ele quota available etc. and Tim is EXTREMELY dis-satisfied
(Putting this mildly....) with the way this was all handled. The hunt area / camp was arrainged on relatively short notice when it became readily apparent that the original hunting area was not going to be a good plan due to ARMY activity and the areas being strongholds for anti Mugabe villages and people. Tim was holding out hope until the last possible minute that the ARMY and others would leave in time to still have a good hunt there. It was sincerely beleived by Tim, according to him, and as represented by the same idiot who gave the hunters so much grief that the area and hunt would be a good one. Tim will NOT be utilizing this guys hunting camp ever again.

I have personally hunted with Tims trackers, Edward and M'buta, several times and I know them to be fantastic trackers. I have known Sylvester and his family for quite a few years and he is a class act. I have plans to sponsor his kids soccer team this winter.

We now have Tims reply and information so that we now have some of both sides of the issue. Thanks again to those who held out the flaming until both sides of the story could be heard. I have several more hunters going to hunt with Tim in the next weeks and months. I am meeting with some of them in person tonight to show them photos of a new area that we want to hunt them in 'Denlinyan' in the Beitbridge region surrounded by Orange groves as our original location of Shosane (Mike shot his girrafe here last year and I shot my Zebra there last year) lodge was hit by brush fires and apx 90% of the area was just burned. If it rains before these folks go in October we may still pt them there as this could cause vegetation growth and a return of the game animals in good numbers with great visibility. I would sure love to be one of the first hunters to go in there next year for plains game!

I hope this post helps to shine some light on the subject. I am still putting advertising and hunt placements on hold for further info and reports back from both my other hunters going this year and still waiting on info from others in Zimbabwe who are all out hunting right now.

MARK

And that gentlemen is exactly why trial by internet with a jury who weren't there, don't know what happened, have only heard one side of the story and often don't know a great deal about the African hunting industry (to say the least)can be so dangerous.

I'm not suggesting the matter is over, or if one party or another is innocent or guilty, but it is a good example of how one party might possibly not be quite as completely guilty as many here first thought.

Like I said, sometimes it's a better idea to settle these things in private and then, if necessary, to announce the result.

I'm almost tempted to suggest that one or two of you might possibly owe Mark and indeed Rick a [bleep]' apology.......

Incidentally, I thought some of you might enjoy this from a stiff assed Brit! (if the bleep machine permits it!)

http://monster-island.org/tinashumor/humor/[bleep].html (You'll have to replace the word (bleep) with the F word!

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=M_cjRvIuQgc

If people had followed this small suggestion and held their �fire� for another 6 days, until Tim Schultz had had a opportunity to give his side of the �story�, we would, as Shakari so rightly point out, have avoided this undignified �trial by internet�. And I do agree; a few apologies just might be in order.

NAN

As I stated before, I had nothing to do with this hunt. No apologies are necessary in this direction. I'm just a casual observer of the thread as much as anyone else.

Rick

My innate and possibly stiff assed English good manners prevents me from quoting the post, but there was one I felt was bloody rude to you, (esp as you're our host)......... which was why I suggested you were also owed an apology.

Although I guess it might have been what passes for America humour........ or should that be humor?

I appreciate the sentiment. The principals in this deal are the ones that need the love. Hunts that go bad suck!