Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Remington 700 Failure!

I am a real proponent of Remington bolt action centerfire Rifles.
Always have been, always will be it seems.
And I often come to the fore when folks make sweeping derogatory comments regarding the folks at Big Green and their "worlds most popular" centerfire bolt action Rifles!
Here, last week though, one of my main Antelope, Mule Deer, Mt. Goat and Elk Hunting partners had a puzzling "failure" with one of his Remington Rifles!
The Rifle in question is a Remington 700 VLS in caliber 243 Winchester. This heavy barrel Varmint style Rifle is amazingly accurate and I have seen it harvest Mt. Goat, Mule Deer, Whitetailed Deer, Antelope and a couple of Coyotes.
In fact I negotiated the "deal" on this Rifle for my friend about 4 years ago.
Well my partner was at the range last week and was firing 100 grain Grand Slam bullets for sight in verification of his VLS. The Rifle refused to extract a spent casing all of a sudden - this was in the middle of a string of shots!
My friend decided to drive to the local gunsmith (another Elk Hunting and Varminting buddy of ours!) and he diagnosed the problem as an improperly installed extractor and/or an improperly milled bolt face ring! The extractor ring was lying in the chamber (bolt lug area and had been slightly deformed by an attempt to "re-extract" the casing that was still in the chamber).
The case was removed (easily) with a cleaning rod. And did not appear to be an over-load!
I later examined the case and double checked my friends powder measure (perfect!) and his other unfired loads were checked (I disassembled and weighed the bullets and the powder charges!) and they were "correct" themselves - no where near maximum in fact.
I examined the bolt face of the Remington 700 myself with a Jewellers Loupe and suggested to my friend that the local gunsmith was not willing to work on the bolt face so we had better get it to a Remington factory repair station ASAP!
The Antelope season is due to start in 35 days and the 700 VLS will be needed for duty then.
The Rifle has been fired ONLY 300 times according to my friends notations!
I personally have no idea what would cause the bolt to "release" ahold of the extractor ring!
But we decided to drive to the nearest Remington repair station (125 miles each way) and see if they could repair or replace the extractor situation.
The two gunsmiths there had no "quick" fix for the Remington other than installing a Sako type extractor for $105.00.
My partner decided to have the Rifle shipped to Remington for their suggested fix - what ever that may be.
I will let you all know what and how much the repair will be.
Puzzling though, this situation with the Remington 700?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

If I were a bettin man, I would say Remington will replace the bolt at no charge.

That is as long as it appears the rifle is unaltered.

I've found that if the rifle is less than 2 years old, Remington does not even ask questions.

GB

I'll bet he won't have it in 35 days.

Sorry to hear about your problems freind. I had the same thing happen to my with my 700bdl 7mm Rem. Mag.

My local Gunsmith was willing to work on mine and I had it back in 3 days. The actual fix doesn't seem to take that long. But since you are having to work with a company and are having to do the whol shipping mess, I'd say your freind should start wrangling another rifle up for the season.

Hate to say it because I love my remington but the ring extractor is probably the weakest link on the m700 design and is part of the reason that on my new rifle I went with the Howa M-1500 which already has a Sako type extractor.

VarmintGuy!

I bet those wily antelope will be VERY happy to hear this unfortunate news about the broken rifle!

I don't know why Remington does not quietly drop the "3 rings of steel" bullshit & just fit Sako type extractors to their actions. Would save a lot of hassles plus that extractor would give somewhere extra for the pressure to go in the event of a blowup.

Well it DID take 300 rounds to happen...nothing's perfect.

I take it this was the latest design non riveted extractor?. Few people noticed this cost saving move from big green on the 700 action. Funny thing the Remington 721,722 had a different style non riveted extractor that was the weak link in them. When the 700 action came out they went to a much improved riveted extractor. Than, as if they forgot issues with 721,722 extractors they have gone back to a newer design non riveted extractor.

In all the 700s and Model 7's I've owned, I've never once broke an extractor. The model 7 I own right now is on barrel #5 too. Maybe when that Pac-nor tube shows up, I'll order a new extractor too

VG, at least you guys got drawn for goat tags. It's a good thing that my Model 7 needs a tube, or it'd be pouting more than it is... I think Antelope hunting is about the most fun you can have with clothes on

M700 extractors break on occasion. I replace probably 5-10 every year.. It happens.. But your local guy should have been able to replace one in under an hour, unless he did in fact note that the extractor recess was improperly done from the get-go.. If that truly is the case, Rem will no doubt replace the bolt.

I hope he gets it back from Remington in time for the hunt.

Redneck: I should have been more informative in my original posting - the extractor did not break it was the milling or formation of the bolt face that would not retain the extractor that caused the extarctor to "fail" to do its work!
My bad there.
Like I tried to allude to in my original posting I have NEVER over the course of many, many dozens of Remington bolt action Rifles and 45+ years of usage had an extarctor fail on me!
If you say you replace many per year I believe you - but thankfully I have not had one fail - to date!

Dan Adair: Yes I was drawn for region 700 Antelope (eastern Montana) and my friend who needed to be near home this fall (son injured & burned in Irag by IED!) was drawn for a local Antelope tag (SW Montana).
At least the Rifle did not "fail" while he was out Hunting!
My friend has a nifty Winchester Model 88 in caliber 243 Winchester that was left to him by his father and it will see duty in case the Remington 700 is not back from the factory in time!

Jungle Jim: Yes this Rifle I am guessing is either 4 or 5 years old. And it is not the riveted extractor type design!
Hope all is well out in "Taxington"!
By the way I just got news last night that my life long friend "Dan" from Maple Valley was along on an Elk Hunt with his son and grand-daughter when she harvested a dandy 5x5 Bull Elk on/near the Hanford Nuclear Resrevation!
Her 270 brought home the early Elk! She being 16 years of age now she adds this Bull Elk to her game bag which included a dandy Bull Moose from NE Washington (last year) and 3 Mule Deer(one form Oregon and two from Washington) so far.

BobinNH: You make a great point - nothing is perfect but the system of extraction of a spent cartridge from a Big Game Rifle should not be subject to the type and amount of failure that "redneck" relays!
You could not prove an excessive failure rate by me but I know it happens on "occassion". When those "occassions" become to frequent then there should/must be a viable solution!

Mlg: I have ONE Remington bolt action Rifle that has a Sako type extractor. I had a Remington XP-100 pistol action made into a custom br quality Varmint Rifle some years ago!
The Riflesmith (Wally Siebert of Issaquah, Washington) converted the 221 Fireball bolt face to accept the 6mm Remington Bench Rest cartridge and a Sako extractor needed to be used once the bolt face was oppened up.
That Sako extractor works perfectly but I thought the downside was it would allow reward escapement of gases in case of a case failure or head seperation type incident???
I don't know for sure - thats another thing I stay away from - fatigued brass and MAXIMUM Loads.

SamOlson: I helped my friend take his first Antelope with this Rifle on a trip to my favorite Powder River country Antelope ranch 4 year ago!
The 243 Winchester is a VERY good Antelope caliber.
In fact I have taken several Antelope with the 243 Winchester caliber myself.
I now use a Remington 700 Sendero in 270 Winchester for Antelope duties.

UrsusFamiliarus: You make a valid point - the extractor is something that MUST work or all else is moot!
Accuracy, holding point of impact and etc are all moot if the Rifle is unable to extract!
Good luck with the BDL and the Howa.

DaveH: I will be sure and let you know when the Rifle "returns" and what the fix will be (was).
I would hope it would be "within" 35 days but who knows.
I will need time to re-mount his scope and ring/bases and he will need time to resight it in.
One of lifes little "hic-cups" this situation - to say the least.

GeorgiaBoy: I again apologize for not making it clear to all here that the "bolt face" was the problem here (according to 3 gunsmith types). And I am not sure if they (Remington Arms Co.) can "repair that bolt face?
I think the Rifle will have to be fitted to a new bolt?
The Rifle IS over the 2 year "limit" but either free repair or pay to repair the work must be done!

Thanks all for the input and insights.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The entire bolt nose including the extractor retaining ring pulled off of my M700 a couple of years back. Chris Matthews fixed it by milling out the entire area and soldering a steel ring in and then milling and installing a Sako extractor. Works like a charm now, $200 later...
Did it look like this?
Before:



After:

$200?????

Hmmmm, Rem 700 + $200 should = a custom action?

OR a Sako which I never had nor hear anyone complaining of breakage ANYWHERE.

Never had a Rem broken extractor, but have had a few failures to extract.

Now I DID have a broken bolt handle once, and THAT will GUARANTEE No EXTRACTION, NO EJECTION, and NO FEEDING takes place!

That was the LAST problem Remington will ever deal me, because I detest the company, their customer service, and attitude from NUMEROUS conversations with MANY personnel, and swore off buying any firearms from them in the future.

There are FAR too many excellent alternatives IMHO, with many features and benefits that I feel better Rem's design AND quality (out of control!!!!).

Rem lovers, I wish you the best and not what I have had with many poor QC guns, but proceed at your own risk (wallet)!

Varmintguy: OK,here goes! This is how I REALLY feel.First, I am not going to substitute my judgement for the fact that there are app 5 MILLION Remington 700's in circulation(is my number correct? I remember reading that somewhere) so a certain number of problems are inevitable.I have owned and shot a fair number of 700's and have personally experienced one problem,with a KS Mountain Rifle that liked to spit rounds from the magazine before called upon to do so.But mechanical failures are problems only because you can't predict when they will occur...

BUT,I have seen a fair number of failures to extract,and a couple of bolt handles come off,and frozen ejectors.The problem is not the strength of the extractor but the weakness of the brass,because the extractor tore through the rim of a reluctant case after firing.This can be troublesome,as happened to my rancher buddy in Wyoming during proceedings with a 32" mule deer two years ago.I backed him up and we got the buck.

To quote Brad, I am a Function Nazi. I was tutored in shooting by hard-core match shooters and experienced big game hunters who believed strongly in controlled feed systems(yes, I knew what a CF system was almost from the start back in 1969,because it was explained to me).A lot of match rifles were 700's, M70's,both pre64 and push feeds,and to this day I hear complaints about delays on the line due to malfunctioning PF M70's and 700's. These guys shoot more in a year than most hunters do in a lifetime,and a rifle not up to par will be exposed in short order.

So, when I hear a HUNTER say he has not had a problem with a 700, I sort of conclude he has not shot as much as the match guys and let it go at that. In all likihood, he won't,ever.

OTOH,I have a choice when I pay money to hunt,or even on a weekend foray locally,and use the CF system exclusively( and it is not because I am worried about being charged by deer );not because they are infallible,but because problems TEND to be fewer in my experience.And to the extent that I can eliminate a potential problem, I am going to do it,because nothing sucks worse than missing an opportunity because your rifle shut down for no reason that you can determine.So, it's unlikely I'll use a PF designed by anyone,for any hunting other than varmints,and continue to use the CF system today.Following this philosophy I can honestly state I have never had a failure to function in the field.And if ANY rifle displays the slightest tendency to do it, it gets fixed or sold pronto.

The reason is that the FIRST job of a rifle is to go "bang" everytime the action is worked and the trigger is pulled. Issues of sub MOA accuracy and other stuff are of secondary consideration in a big game rifle.Function and reliability under field conditions trump all other considerations IMHO.

I am prepared for the verbal flaming

Gotcha.. I see what you mean now.. I've not had that happen re: M700s (yet), however I've had several M742's with sheared extractor recesses.. Only cure is a new bolt head and that's a spendy little number... Over $90, head alone..

Now that I see what you were talking about I'm betting heavily that Rem will just replace the bolt with a new one, gratis... They don't have much time for that kind of failure, even if it's somewhat out of warranty..

Let us know what they do..

I am with BobinNH, good post. Take the Old Mauser actions for example, they have as issued stiff triggers and slow lock times, but they do go bang, extract, feed, and bang again, and that is a priority when shooting whether game or whatever. Decently accurate and plain rugged and simple. Reliability has to be 100% for me, or I lose the gun, nothing less is acceptable in my book.

I'm the biggest Pro Sako guy on here. Love em. Currently own about a dozen of them and have probably owned thru the years close to 25-30 of them. Borrowed one to kill my first deer at age 11 and have wanted them ever since.

Having said that, nobody is perfect. I've had a few boo boo's with mine - even some right from the factory. They all got fixed with no problems (but to be honest I haven't tested it since Beretta took over and I'm not really looking forward to the day with my track record with Beretta).

Remingtons customer service may/may not suck I do not know personally. I bet they do ask if you were shooting commerical ammunition tho. I have a hunch that the number of people hunting and shooting the 700 in the US each year dwarfs the number of Sako's total in all models by several orders of magnitude.

Sucks when it happens to you, but it happens.

On my first Africa trip a guy in camp's Blaser had a total lockup where he couldn't get the bolt open (out of the case in camp it was an empty chamber)....so even the best makers have bad days I guess.

I guess I've seen enough rifle breakages on hunts (and I see a LOT of hunters each year in the field - A LOT) that I'm just extra caution. I carry an extra rifle almost all the time. It's in the truck on regular hunts, I carry 2 rifles on the horse if I'm hunting from a horse. Of course in Africa on hunts you always have an extra and then there's always the PH's rifle if it comes down to it and you need to bum a rifle for a non dangerous game shot. Extra paranoid for me I guess.