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The "Hanging Deer" thread seemed to be taking this turn, so figured I'd start a new one. How do you guys age your deer?

I like to hang a deer ONLY long enough to get it chilled enough such that it is easy to cut. I find that stuff that gets cut too fast (warm) doesn't last as long in the freezer. If it is good and cold out, I don't worry about a few days or even a week if it is staying below about 40, but my preference is to cut it up as soon as the meat is chilled.

I've been told by a couple good butchers that hanging to "tenderize" is BS when it comes to deer because they are so lean.

Don't know, but the crappiest venison I've eaten over the years has been stuff left to hang for days on end. Could be coincidence....

MS:

You started this thread about the same time as I posted on the other one on the same topic. I've had some good butchers tell me aging helped on deer, so I don't doubt that it does, done properly, but like you, I've never had any venison where I could tell that aging seemed to make it better and I've had some that aging had to have made worse, since it was nearly inedible. I think they beat the buzzards to it by 3 minutes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

IF you use a vacuum packing machine, the longer past six months you keep meat frozen, the more tender it is. The reason I mention vacuum packing the meat is for safety reasons and also no freezer burn.

Dave, I've found that vacuum packed or not if you cut and wrap a deer while the meat is still warm, it doesn't last nearly as long in the freezer. If it is wrapped after the meat has been chilled, it is not only easier to cut, but it typically lasts over a year.

Muley you got it right bud. You have to get the animal heat get out of the carcasse. Even if it is warm you have to do that via ice bags or cold water or a fan and a wet blanket or something. If you slice it up while it still has some of the natural animal heat in the meat it will go bad on you down the line a lot faster. I don't know why. I just know it does from experience.

As for hanging deer I've never seen that it made much difference as CAT says. Who wants to eat rotten deer anyway. Hanging makes a lot of difference on beef. On deer Quien Sabe? For me it don't.

BCR

I agree 100% about the meat being chilled before cutting and packaging. I was only stating something I read about freezing meat. The article was specifically alout beef but the article said it was true about all meats.

A professional butcher does not know diddley about anything other than cutting meat into smaller pieces. I used to be one.

There was a study done at A&M (you can get the pamplet from the County extension office) on the preparation of venison for consumption that proves alot of the "common sense" knowledge is incorrect.

Their tests showed no difference between the flavor and tenderness of mature bucks and young does. They showed that deer in good health produced the best quality meat when killed quickly with a centerfire rifle. Deer that ran, died slowly, or put up a strugle produced tougher and stronger flavored meat.

For a decade I kept records on the freezer wrapping of my venison. I wrote the sex, age, date, and number of days the meat was aged before freezing. I learned that three to ten days of aging the meat is good. Just as the A&M pamplet said. I learned that mature bucks shot during the rut taste just as good as a young doe.

I no longer record any information other than the date because no one could tell any difference in the quality of that venison. I do think venison looses some quality if keept in the freezer more than a year. I've had some that was still good after 18 months when double wraped.

The factors in bad venison are how it's killed and how the meat is cared for. If you want good eating meat kill it quick, gut it and get the meat cooled down, and keep it clean. That's all there is to it.

Heat, flys, and contaminants are bad mojo. All the rest is just old wives (butchers / hunters) tales.

BTW I have never taken a deer to a processor. I do that myself and I am the strictest quality control inspector there is.

PDS - I agree 99% - but- AGING WORKS! I have proved it to my own satisfaction many times over on both moose and caribou (more than 20, almost 50, respectively), which are no different than whitetails or mule deer for all paractical purposes on this subject.



The best example I can give is on my last caribou. It was a smallish racked 3 year old bull, killed in early October (7th), smack in the middle of rut, temperature ranging from about 25 to 35 degees. He was totally without fat, as he had been "wistful and willing" and practice jousting with others of his rank, and constantly being run off by the dominant bulls (which I passed up - as they tend to be "stinkers" during rut) in the herd of about 100 animals that I was watching for about an hour before the kill.



I packed the back quarters 2 miles to the nearest trailside spruce and hung 'em high, went back and got all the rest, including the backstraps and tenderloins, and packed it all out (12 miles). We had the tenderloins steaked for supper the next night. Pretty darned chewey. The next Saturday, I went back for the hanging hinds. The steaks from this "aged" hind meat- which had ice crystals in it wen I butchered it that Sunday, were far more tender than the tenderloins had been.



Aging works - and fat or marbeling has absolutely nothing to do with it. It is the enzyme breakdown - and maybe in this case, the freeze/thaw cycle - of the muscle tissue that produces tender cuts. That, and moist cooking. If I barbecue it, I impregnate it with olive oil, if I fry it, it is breaded, if roasted or crock-potted, it is tightly covered, with water, wine, etc added. Being the impatient sort, I don't do much marinating, but I understand that these acidic baths also work well to tenderize lean wild game - I know tomato juice does, as I frequently use this as a sauce base to cook with. Crock pot it for 8 to 12 hours, with or without acitic base, and it will be tender!



The tenderest and best tasting caribou I have ever eaten was from a big bull that I took out on the Alaska Peninsula in August in the mid 70's. I was Fish and Gaming on a salmon counting site, and the two of us were getting pretty darn tired of pork chops as a steady diet after a month or so. Had a valid hunting license, season was open, so I expended a State .338 round (with permission of my supervisor) on a bull that had been hanging around for a few days. Sent a hind quarter to another site, gave the rest to our supply/ survey pilot. We ate off that hind for over 2 weeks, unrefridgerated. The longer it hung, the better it got in the 40 to 55 degree temperature. We'd trim off a little green stuff and the maggots, slice a couple of steaks, and have at it. Toward the end there, tho, we'd have to bolt for the door, reguardless of time or weather. Those farts were deep purple, and enough to gag a maggot. One dare not be caught in a sleeping bag with them.

I think the last two posts offer what I consider ideal. The key is to keep the meat clean, Peel the hide, flush the cavity if possible, completely clean the neck and split the pelvis. This allows the meat to cool inside asap. I then hang my venison three days if the temp is below 45 degrees. I never take my meat to a processer. If most guys saw how filthy those USDA inspected places are they would probably never eat venison again.

I agree with LAS. I live in NC right now while I work for Uncle Sam, but you'd have a hard time convincing most of us from the adirondacks that aging doesn't work. Weather permitting, I always try to hang my deer for a week. I killed a young buck here not too long ago, and pulled the tenderloins immediately, and took to the frying pan....they were like bubble gum. Hooked up with a friend who owned a walk-in cooler, and put the deer in for a week...........mercy day...that was some good venison!



FWIW,

Jarhead Ed





EDITED: Just wanted to add that when I can't hang a deer, I try to pull the meat from the freezer a few days before I plan on cooking. That too seems to help.

I don't have the article any,more, but yrs back Penn State U did a study on aging and found that after the meat is in the freezer for moe than 30 days, there is no difference. I have never aged an elk or deer. I have only had two tough ones, one many yrs ago down in New Mexico, and this cow I shot in New Mexico the past season. The poorly tasting deer I have had came out of sage brush country. Of the few that I have had to take to processors, they have hung from a few days to two weeks and I saw no differnce.
My freezer is not a frost free one, and I believe that the frost frre feezers are the one that causes freezer burn. My meat gets single wrapped in standard freezer paper purchased at the super market.Usaully an elk last me a yr, and I'm pretty close to being out of meat by the time the next season rolls around. I have rasied a few beef, adn I didn't age them either. Same results.
I firmly believe that the taste of the meat is due to how the animal is taken care of immediately after it is killed, how it was killed ( quicky versus lingering death) and what it''s diet was.

I usually hang it at a few degrees above freezing for 2 to 3 days. This seems to work for me, be it deer, elk, moose, or caribou. My experience with deer meat doesn't jive with PDS's, though. He said that, "I learned that mature bucks shot during the rut taste just as good as a young doe. " Last year I shot an old 3x4 blacktail-mulie cross. He was hit in the chest and went down immediately where he stood. I cleaned and skinned him immediately and had hanging up in the cold less than two hours later. His meat was a far cry from a nice fat, doe's, though. It was the third week of November when I shot him and he was in full rut. When I approached the downed buck, I could smell him, and when I opened him up the smell was pretty strong. It wasn't hold-your-nose-awful, but it wan't pleasant, either. That same "tang" stayed in the meat. It was edible but not at the top of my list.
There have to be some good reasons that ranchers raise steers and the best schnitzel is made from veal. Us old men don't taste so good!

With elk I have noticed much less difference - a bull, even in the rut, still tastes pretty good. Bull moose aren't too bad, either. Caribou are a different story. A dominant bull in the middle of the rut is inedible; you can smell them from a hundred yards away, and it ain't nice.

I could'nt tell the difference if it hung a week or it was processed right a way. In Oklahoma we dont get to age them much except for in a freezer. Weather is usually to warm to hang them at camp. So I like to wash the blood and hair off ASAP and coolem out pretty quick.And gettem in freezer paper quickly. I think the biggest issue with taste and texture is deit and age. Give me a fat young wheat fed doe any day. Them old mossy horns that live in the Bojacks eatin poison ivy and timber grass make good chilie, But their steaks anit much pumpkin in my book.
Hooker

John G , Las, all, when you gut a stinky buck with that tang, does your [bleep] and farts smell like that?? I am laughing so hard right now ,I can hardly type. But it happened to me, I shot a button buck that stunk so bad I could hardly stand it(neck shot, died in20 seconds) my farts smelled just like that stink for two days. Anyone else have this happen.BTW we gut in the field, hang head up , rinse cavity with cold water , and age for 5-10 days. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

saddlesore - I agree with you absolutely about the quick kills and proper field care, nor have I ever taken anything to a processor. I disagree with you about there not being a difference between animals in rut and not- at least where moose and caribou are concerned. Sometimes- not always, but sometimes there is. It varies with the individual animals, too. some are just better than others, no matter when they are killed.

I have had two moose - both 2 year olds, I think, that had a definate urine/adrenaline tang to their meat, and both were shot on or around the 17th of September just before rut begins (officially). Others of that age/size/kill time had no such taste. I think these two were just individuals in what passes for puberty among moose, reacting strongly to their first full-fledged urges and hormones. I have shot several bulls both larger and later than that, and the meat quality varied, tho not to that extent. One of the best eating was a 53" bull, that, had he not had a snaggle horn on one side, should have been about 59". I think he was 7, as I'd seen a similarily deformed 2 or 3 year old in the area 4 years earlier, and I think it was the same one. He was killed on Sept 11, and was in full rutting mode- nothing in his stomach, neck swollen, pink tongue - he hadn't eaten for a day or two at least- even tho the girls were still a couple weeks away from being ready for him. He came in blowing, grunting, and thrashing, looking for a fight in answer to my raking and grunting. But he hadn't been fighting yet that we could see. Perhaps he had some testicular abnormality which twanged his antler growth/ rut timing a bit- I don't know.

Several years ago, an acquaintence bow-killed two near-60" bulls along the Dalton Highway (Pipeline route) in two successive years, within a couple miles of each other. Both good clean double-lung shots that quickly put the bulls down. The first one was taken on the 25th of September- last day of season, and was excellent eating- I got half of it. The second one was taken on the 23rd, and was inedible. Not even our dogs would eat it. He had been fighting (and losing, apparently), and had some serious and infected puncture wounds and bruises all over his body, and a couple broken ribs. High on adrenaline, he'd come at a dead run from a mile away to Mike's bull call.

Kill a bull in late August, or before the 15th of September, and there is almost no risk that you'll get one like the second one.

Perhaps 30 days in the freezer does level the field, but I doubt it. Besides-who waits 30 days to start gnawing on the things?

I'll shoot them clean, dress them soonest, take good field/processing/freezer care of them, but I will, if at all possible, hang them for 4 to 10 days, depending on conditions. I don't have a temperature/humidity controlled aging room, but I wish I did.

Aging in beef is done to change the chemical nature of the marbleizing (sp?) fat. It definately improves taste. In a deer, there is no appreciable levels of this fat, so classic aging is useless and probably deleterious.

However, I agree with those guys who think a deeply-chilled carcass is a good carcass. My processor always has my meat for me in a week. During that time, it has spent several days hanging in walk-in fridge with the hide off.
After packaging it is quickly frozen, and by then I'm back with the cash and the big coolers.

You all bring up a good point. I try to work my venison on a FIFO basis. Whenever I grab something fresh from the back of the pipeline, it is tougher and requires more processing. The stuff that has gone a year is still good and tasty, but also quite tender. After a few months in the freezer, the difference is undetectable.

Do I age my deer? Come to think of it, yes I do. However, I'm aging it in the freezer. I hadn't thought of it until now-- over time I have been shying away from the really fresh venison. We were mostly eating off a 2002 doe until a few weeks ago. We've been digging into the big 2003 buck. The first package back around Thanksgiving was much tougher than the wonderful stuff we have been eating lately.

I agree with HOOKER somewhat. I think that diet and condition plays a lot of it and age a little. I worked for two winters at a locker plant when I was young, and we processed a lot of deer along with beef and hogs. I was always told that meat would be tender if the animal was gaining weight and tough if it was losing. I know that a beef that was on pasture with green onions (wild garlic) would smell like garlic. Sometimes it would actually burn your eyes. We used to run deer with dogs and one that was run a long ways would smell bad and be almost inedible. If a deer is chasing does and not eating, he will be losing weight and probably tough. I have killed some large bucks that the meat was tender and good. In fact my neighbor killed a fairly large nine point this past season that he says has the best meat that he has ever had.
The professional butchers tell me that you cannot age meat properly unless you have a cooler with controled humidity and that a couple of days will not change anything except to chill the carcass and make it easier to cut.
I process my own for several reasons. I don't want it cut with a saw and get bone dust and morrow on the meat. I think that the morrow will make it taste bad sooner. I also package my steaks in a heavy duty zip lock bag filled with water (the same as I do fish). I have eaten some that was lost in the freezer for three years and it was as good as it was at six months. miles

A couple things to add:

One, if folks took care of beef in the same manner they took care of their venison, it'd taste like crap too. If you drag a gutted carcass for a mile through sage brush, you shouldn't be surprised when it comes out tasting like sage. Not to mention dragging causes friction, which increases heat, which....

I won't even start in on the guys who simply throw an animal in the back of a truck or on a trailer and then drive 100 or 1000 miles with it collecting road spatter. Arrggggg!

Obviously I feel that field care is the MOST important factor for the taste of game meat.

The other is a theory based on too little information, but I'll throw it out. I believe that the REALLY big bucks and bulls tend to taste better than the younger ones, especially during rutting times. Those old ones have learned that if they are to survive, they need to conserve energy and don't get wound up until the actual breeding time comes. The young ones on the other hand are killing themselves chasing does and acting like idiots for a couple weeks in advance only to have Mr. Big step in at the last moment and take the trophy.

I believe this to be true with both deer and elk, but more so with deer. Nature played a cruel trick on them, putting the rut so close to winter. At least elk have a couple months after the rut to gear back up for winter. The bucks who survive are the ones who've learned to expend the least amount of energy while still getting things done.

Elk are a good example tough. I see it every year. The pre-rut activity starts and all you see are raghorns with the herds of cows. The next week you're seeing decent fives and small 6's, then the better 6's move in and they are really putting together some good harems of cows -- only to have Mr. Big come in about the time the first cow lifts her tail and runs all the smaller bulls off (who did all the work putting the herd together) and takes over. Those smaller bulls participate in the rut several times longer than the big bulls and therefore are leaner and more stressed and don't taste as good.

Conservation of energy! My point being that those really old guys have been laid up chewing their cud and getting/staying fat much more than the younger bucks. The couple really old bucks I've had the pleasure of eating were damn fantastic eating!

Caveat: I've shot a few bulls in the rut, but the seasons here are not such that you can hunt mule deer in the rut (at least in the mountains), so I've never really shot a rutted up buck.

Ha, I knew there was a reason I am so ummmm, roundish....now if only the rut would start.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Eileen Clarke (our friend Mule Deer's wife) has several PAGES on this issue in her excellent "Venison Cookbook." Here's the link: www.riflesandrecipes.com

I've made several of her gamebird recipes and she definitely knows her stuff. Mmmmm.