Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders NEF Partner Breech Plug Blues ?!?!?

My son shoots an NEF Partner .50 cal ML (youth model) I shoot his just like I shoot mine on the bench. I'll clean from the business end and pull the breech plug every 15 rounds or so. Never a problem until last week. It's like the plug is welded in place. I've tried the hot water trick and soaked it for days with a barrel full of penetrating oil. No joy. The plug itself is a bit of a joke anyway. The breech tool is like a 1" long piece of round barstock with a (flat blade) screwdriver like tip, sort of like a key???. Anyway, it's very difficult to get much leverage on the plug. Any ideas on removing the plug?

get a friend or your son to help you.Two of you should be able to get more power on it than one alone.I had something similar happen with a semi auto shotgun last year,with two people it came apart,but by myself I couldnt budge it

Power is not the problem, imagine trying to remove a breech plug with a penny, cross slot like a screwdriver. That's the problem. Long before you can get much power on it, it'll slip. You have to hold it in the slot AND turn it. It's not your typical 6-sided brech plug you can put a ratchet on.

You probably need to put the barrel in a vise (pine or something to protect the metal), then apply heat to the barrel at the plug with a torch. Don't get carried away with the heat but you surely need to get it hotter than you did with the water. Attempt to free it while its hot.

Yep, those tools suck. Some have fit the tool inside a metric sized socket (21mm I think) and then weld it in place.

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,141563.msg1098563591.html#msg1098563591

http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php/topic,138822.msg1098543749.html#msg1098543749

I'm a little concerned about heating the barrel with a torch, possibly changing the properties of the metal, etc..

I agree with your concern, but I think a gunsmith might tell you the same thing. Just don't get crazy with the heat and keep moving the torch so that nothing gets red hot. Allow it to cool naturally afterwards.

It could be the vice alone with a better tool would allow you enough torque to break it free. Nothing says you have to use the provided tool.

ok i dont do this often just modern stuff just isnt my stick.
But all that aside .
When it comes to heat you have to be little careful.
But if you remove the barrel and use a propane touch �DO NOT USE OXY < AC� it can get to hot and do the very thing your worried about .
But basically you want to only apply heat to the center of the plug and let it naturally radiate out move out . The plug should be made of a softer material then the barrel ..
It actually doesn�t take a lot of heat . You don�t need it red hot but you can get it good an hot with the propane .
You will need to put the barrel in a vice . Padding it with a couple soft pine blocks is good advice and should be listened to .

While its heating up , take a BRASS hammer and lightly ring the barrel on the outside , around the plug . The vibration will help in Breaking the fouling that has welded the plug in place . The cause im guessing is that the plug face was leaking and allowing fouling into the threads . IF you havent already , I would get a new plug .
Now make sure your toll fit�s the slot exactly , no slop . If you have slop it will slip and in no time you will have a bigger problem .
Now if it still doesn�t slip , go down and get a can of Sea foam penetrating fluid . Penetrating fluids come in different consistencies for tighter tolerances . Most folks don�t realize this . So compare the one you used and get one that penetrates tighter tolerances .
Now something to keep in mind here . IF by chance you plugs face is properly sealed . Placing PO down the barrel will do no good . It wont go anywhere into the threads unless the plug is leaking . So also place the PO around from the back of the plug . This is the area with the open thread .
Then try the heat again ..

If things go so far that you bugger up the slot for the tool , then the plug is no good anyway . Drill it and use an easy out that you can get more leverage on to remove the plug .

After all is said and done and you have the plug out . Be sure and use inletting black to check the new plug to make sure its face is sealing properly . If it is not . Then you either have to do or have some work done or if the barrel is under warrantee , send it back for the work to be done .
The plug MUST seal , this doesn�t mater modern or traditional , The plug MUST seal at a face on the plug

You see captchee, there just isn't really a whole heap of difference.

Thanks for helping me out with a better explanation.

with some thing Underclock , no there isnt . but with others yes there is . just depends on what we are talking about .

some of the basics are the same . even some of the ignitions systems like the ones doc white used are very close to the same as those inline ignitions that have been around for 300 years ..
one of the things that�s always amazed me though is the removable breech plugs .
I don�t know how many times I have read of these having problems . Even the manufactures warn of inspecting them and replacing them when needed.
There is only one real reason for that need and its that the plug doesn�t seal properly . There should never be fouling on the threads if the plug seals correctly .
But because the rifles are designed to have removable plugs , one can keep an eye on the problem before it becomes a safety issue .
Se with a traditional design it easy to tell if a plug isn�t sealed because you find fouling leaking out around the plug when you clean it . With modern designs , its much harder to tell because the design inherently has fouling in this same area .
I just , I guess don�t understand why with today�s technologies in machining that companies cannot make a plug that is properly milled to a very close tolerances that would seal properly .
Even if we consider that the plug may expand some under high pressures, a little anti seize would still allow it to come out ????
But then on the other hand I guess I can understand that such machining cost money and thus would raise the product cost . And really if its inspected properly when cleaned , what does it mater unless you run into a case such as this .
But on that same note underclock , I wonder just how many folks know what to look for in a plug that�s needing replaced ?
There are always signs , even with traditional designs .
CVA had this problem with their drum bolsters and clean out screws . It really wasn�t so much a problem with their design because it was an old and widely used design . But folks just didn�t seem to understand that when the bolsters started to have to be tightened up , that what it was telling them was it was time to replace it

So ya � some� things can easily be comparable in basic theory

I just couldn't pass that opportunity, there Captchee!

i know lol

Didnt read all of the posts, But if it still stuck you can use a propane torch and heat the area around the plug threads (Barrel) while applying force on the breech plug tool and it just break the plug loose within a couple of minutes.

i have 2 friends that have these guns, they took a old socket and welded it on the end of the remover tool . put the barrel in a vice and use a ratchet. i would just take a old 1/2 drive extension and grind it down making a new tool.