Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics I just called Leupold

imho,
Leupold has FUTCHED THE DUCK by the mere mention of NO WARRANTY unless sold through AUTHORIZED DEALERS. I don't care what their warranty problems are it was one of the few things that kept them as No. 1 in the market. Competition is going to continue to get tougher and Leupold has just scared the chit out of a goodly percentage of perspective customers. If they post a full retraction I would imagine you'll be hearing about this brainstorm for many months(years?) to come...

I'm as big a Leupold Pimp as you are likely to find, however, a murky warranty statement puts them in fierce competition with makers from the eastern rim. THE MOMENT that US hunters and shooters no longer get the warm and fuzzies from the scopes made Right Here wrapped in the green blankie is when they are OFFICIALLY screwed...

I've got three brands of scope in my vault. Leupold, Schmidt & Bender, & Nightforce... If anything gets kicked to curb it'll be the high end glass, however, a bean counter in Oregon can change all of that in short order...

Regards, Matt.

Btw, Golf Clap to the IDIOT who came up with this campaign...

It looks like Leupold got themselves in a real "pickle"..

They are calling low priced sellers "bandits",, when they sell at a loss.. C'mon.. ! That guy ain't going to be in business very long.

"Un-authorized" ? dealers. huh? Someone sneaking in the warehouse at night and taking the scopes out the back door? Leupold knows who they sell to.. I hope..

Does Leupold want us to believe that too many scope's from "unauthorized dealers" are becoming a problem for their repair shop? I have had many of their scopes.. as most of us here can attest.. they simply don't break.. OK.. maybe a few here and there.. but relatively speaking thay are pretty much "bomb proof"..

IMHO.. Leupold is trying to make all their dealers happy.. not a bad thing.. but I'm sure very difficult. They should not try to deflect their problem to "bandits", "unauthorized dealers", "repair problems", or "The customer does not understand our polcy"..

C'mon Leupold .. step up to the plate.. and quit pointing fingers.. It's your problem and you need to fix it.

I gotta go now.. I am looking for a "bandit' gun dealer so he can sell me a gun at a loss..
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Al..

I just got verbatim the same reply to my email as "avagadro", about the warranty changes. I feel that Leupy is trying to protect any price erosion of their scopes.
I also agree that the American consumer is a big part of the problem. We have no one but ourselves to blame for the predicament that manufacturers are in. We want it now, cheap, with full service, yatta, yatta, yatta. WE need to stop giving entire industries to other countries and start rebuilding American industry no matter what the cost, and that means we need to be willing to pay the price for quality.

In this case, I thought we just wanted it the same as always?

dave

Jim,
One of the reasons I don't use the German stuff is because it is priced out of reason.

The Germans have been doing this for years. It is a way of controlling profit margin. Everyone sell for this price or you will not be an Authorized dealer, and consiquently void the warrenty.

Leupold is following the wrong lead.

GB

Stick hit the nail on the head. Leupold is living in a dream world if they're giving volume discounts to some and then demanding that everyone charge the same retail price. They have absolutely NO leg to stand on if they're charging different prices to their distributors. They control what they charge to the wholesalers. If a wholesaler buys them so cheap that he can undercut the competition then it's leupold's fault, not the consumer's. These so called "bandits" get their scopes from leupold just like the other dealers. If leupold's selling to them then they should fix it on their end, not by trying to screw their loyal customers.



I've got an FFL and sell a few leupold scopes to buddies every now and then, as well as buying a few for myself. As soon as I heard of this new policy I e-mailed leupold and got back a form letter (the text was exactly the same as has been posted by others on internet forums). I'm not an "authorized" leupold dealer, but I get them from a nationwide wholesaler. Obviously this wholesaler gets them directly from leupold, so why should these scopes not be covered by their warranty? Why should a scope I sell someone not be covered by a warranty while one sold by someone else is covered? Hell, I don't even get them as cheap as the "authorized dealers" because I have to go through a middleman. If the scopes all come off of the same assembly line at leupold then why should one be covered and another not? Are they not all of the same quality?



Someone at leupold has a bad case of rectocranial inversion with this mess. You either stand behind your product or you don't, don't give me this bull$hit about which distribution channel it came through, the average consumer isn't going to hire a private investigator to trace the chain of custody on these things before he buys one. If the warranty doesn't come with the inflated price that leupold charges then it's an easy choice, I'll pay the extra few hundred bucks for a swarovski or schmidt & bender. Leupold makes a good scope, but let's not fool ourselves, the warranty is the only thing that makes it worth a premium price compared to some other scopes on the market.



Even if leupold has retracted their stance on this, I've lost a lot of faith in them as a company. I've long been one of their most faithful defenders. This crap is a huge letdown. If they're this stupid as a company then it makes you question how, or if, they can make a decent scope. I sure hope that whoever made this stupid policy decision isn't involved in the manufacturing of the product.

Crow hunter,
Feel better bud ? I think you would feel better if you just let it all hang out .Tell us what you really think . <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Just imagine being a sales rep for Leupold . ---
" Hey guys, I just got off the phone with Sam Walton III at wally world, He wants to buy 10000 scopes a month for all his stores in North America for the next five years. We are rich. Well not really he only wants to pay 50 % of what we charge the little local gun shops and mom and pops Sounds good to me .Screw the little guys We can sell in volume now."
Some how I just cant see myself buying a Leupold at wall mart. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
dave

Yep, I feel better now. Think I'll drink a couple of brews and go to bed.

Leupolds are priced much higher in Canada and there no sale prices.That's why Canadians like Bushnells.There is a lesson here.

Buy U.S. in the U.S.?

Now talk about letting the air out of the balloon. Was finally gonna give lupie a shot. And yes I buy at the cheapest price I can find. I have to in order to survive. That stuff dont grow on trees. At least not where I live. And now they are talking about jacking with the warranty. Another nikon is coming back into the picture. Or a bushnell elite 4200. But if lupie dont get their act together and quick they can forget me ever owning one of their scopes. Ashamed too. The vx-III is a kick ass scope. But punishing me because I found a great price on their scope by jacking with my warranty. All I can say is [bleep] YOU! Will definitely keep my eye on this one. If they get their ducks back in line then yes a lupie it is. But if not. I will gladly buy another nikon.

GB:

Agreed. Along with the costs, I am not interested in the german stuff for a couple of ergonomic reasons. I have nothing against them, as all three of my binos are german.

There is a lot of overreacting going on here. If Leupold attempts to control their distribution somewhat, it's highly unlikely that they will suddenly take a 100% or even 50% or 30% price jump. It will probably be on the order of less than 10% If they eliminate some of the network of "unauthorized" dealers, then the price will go back to the lowest common denominator which might be Cabela's or Wal-Mart. Those guys are not likely to drive the prices (UP) very much. It's interesting how some folks revere Cabela's and spit at Wally's. They are practically the same animal, and they engage in the same business practices as any other mass merchandiser.

The current market reality is that Leupold has huge market demand. (A recent poll on Remington's site tallied scope popularity, IIRC, Leupold had more votes than all others combined). Given that situation, huge demand, and the manufacturing capacity to meet it, what is Leupold to do? Not sell to the venues that can make them the most money and guarantee them the dominant market share? Let's get real here. It is what it is.

If the big hitters are trying to crush the non brick and mortar outlets, that's nothing new. It's been happening in the sporting goods business since the genesis of the internet. It's hard to say what motivated the ill-conceived warranty change. It might have pressure from Cabela's and Wally's, it might have been pressure from the "gun" distributors that sell to Mom and Pop, it might even have been a righteous rebellion internally against the "no service-no expertise" guys. Who knows??

All this shouting and screaming and posturing is just beating a way dead horse. Leupold has already retracted the ill conceived warranty policy adjustment. If they need to mash the "bandits" they can figure out another way to do it.

JimF

It doesn't make any difference to Leupold's bottom line if somebody is selling scopes for less than what Leupold's MSRP/MAP pricing is. Fact of the matter is, Leupold got their nut when they sold the scopes to the wholesaler/distributors. If they sell a VX-III for $150 to Acme Distributors then that's the end of it. If the cost of manufacture is $100, then they make a $50 profit regardless of how much that scope actually sells to a consumer for. Who Acme Distributors sells the scope to and for how much is completely irrelevant to Leupold's bottom line. Leupold isn't collecting royalties on the end sale such as 10% of the sale price.

As such there is no reasonable excuse for Leupold to not honor the warranty for a scope purchased from a "bandit" retailer. Either way the scope would have broken and it would be in for repairs regardless.

I need a new scope for my .30-06. Perhaps I should just go with the Ziess Conquest 3-9x40 if Leupold wants to start getting childish.

Glenn:

Limited Lifetime Transferable Warranty

All Zeiss Binoculars, Riflescopes, and Spotting Scopes (EXCLUDING THE PARTS and SPECIALTY PRODUCTS LISTED BELOW) sold through a [color:"red"] United States Authorized Zeiss Dealer [/color] come with a Lifetime Transferable Warranty. This warranty gives the purchaser ("you") specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.

Apparently Zeiss has the same attitude as Leupold. Childish??

JimF

My take on that matter,is that there is more red tape involved with an imported item,than there is a domestic product.

I can sorta savvy the Euro Manufacturer's stance,for that very reason................

That's one lesson for us,the other is for Leupold, market share with price fixing is much less.BTW the VIII 2.5x8x36 is my favorite 'scope,but I would switch if 4200s were more compact,even at the closeout prices the 4200s are a honest $100CDN cheaper.Warranty issue is a wash for Canadians,both have Canadian warranty shops,but Bushnell has a long and good history.

I consider it childish in that these are basically child-like games a manufacturer is playing that is no consequence to their bottom line.

What does the manufacturer care if unauthorized dealers are selling their product? Either way, they made their money when they shipped the scopes to the distributor. If the unathorized dealers are selling the product for less and underselling the authorized dealers then so be it. In the end, it doesn't make any difference to Leupold since Leupold has already made their money long before the scope ever made it to a retailer's shelf. Furthermore, having unauthorized retailers simply improves a manufacturer's retail channels, further expanding their name presence on the shelf.

I wasn't aware of Ziess having a similar condition in their warranty. I am aware from my reads around here over the past few months that the consensus is that they produce a better product, however.

But you did bring up an interresting point, the legal rights that "vary state to state." If enough consumers cry foul it is possible to add to the lawbooks conditions that prevent manufacturers from not honoring warranties because the products were not sold at so-called authorized dealers. After all, how many customers would know to ask if the dealer is authorized or not? They certainly wouldn't realize this is of any consequence to their warranty until they have already purchased the product and opened it to get the warranty card out.

But for all this to stand up Leupold must crack down on all of these unauthorized retailers. If Leupold is aware of a company selling their products that is not authorized to do so, and Leupold does nothing to stop that retailer, by their own inaction they are authorizing that retailer to sell their products.

-Glenn

Glenn:



Naturally the following is just an example. Leupold and Cabela's names are used to simply illustrate a point. No resemblance to companies or parties living, dead, or in suspended animation is intended or implied.



It may not matter to a manufacturer such as Leupold for example, whether there are unauthorized outlets for their products. Despite a sliding scale of w/s prices, a mfr. can predict their post sales margins fairly well. As long as their supply can meet the demand, there is no reason not to sell to whomever has a pulse.



However, the game that is played is not started by the supplier, it is started by the big retailer. When the buyer from say for example, Cabela's sits down with Leupold management and discusses the order and terms for the following year, they decide upon model mix, w/s pricing, volume, closeouts etc. If the retailer the size of Cabela's wants to throw their weight around, they bring up the subject of unauthorized sales channels. The resolution they are looking for is usually a better discount or longer terms, or maybe an exclusive product.



This type of negotiation is common and forces the mfr. to make concessions in pricing, services, or distribution. This kind of stuff happens all the time. The fact that this episode is causing an uproar here at the campfire is mosly because there are so many dedicated Loopy-loonies that are feeling betrayed. Similar decisions and provisions are probably made by most manufacturers. The real world impact of any change in a warranty policy such as this would be small at worst. Usually, the manufacturer will make a concession of some type to appease the big hitter who is about to place a multi -million dollar order. I'd suspect that most warranty situations would be resolved as before, and changes would likely not be enforced.



JimF

Don't know if anyone here noticed, or even cares, but Cabela's dropped the price of the Leupold 3x9 compact from $339.00 to $249.00 in thier latest shooting catalog. Jim.....

Take a guess on hat dealer price is on that scope.

Rick