Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles My Dilema (Switch to Barnes X or not)

I went out shooting with a good buddy yesterday afternoon, He was shooting his .300 Win Mag, I was shooting my .338 Win Mag. We had a good time, but now we need to get busy reloading again soon.

I was very impressed by his Barnes X Bullets, we managed to recover several of his spent bullets & one of my Nosler's from behind our targets, his Barnes X Bullets held together much better than my Nosler Partitions! I am strongly considering switching to the Barnes X Bullets in my .338 Win Mag & my .260 Rem calibers.

My Main concern is accuracy with a light bullet, I have always relied on my 250 Grain Partitions as garanteed game getters, but I did try the 210gr Partition many years ago. I was not happy with the accuracy, as my 250gr loads shot into a reasonably tight 1 1/4" or less group at 100yards, the best I got out of my 210gr bullet trial was 3 1/2" @ 100 yards {which, while it will kill at 100 yards provides too much spread to be dependable at 300 yards}. My train of thought was that the 210gr Partition was too short, thus there wasn't sufficient stability, the Barnes Bullets by their design are longer because they lack the lead density so it takes more copper to make the same bullet weight in grains. Which increases the shank length contacting the rifling. I am not interested in trying any bullet weight lighter than 200gr out of my .338 Win Mag, but if I could be assured of decent accuracy from a 200gr or 210gr Barnes bullet I would be glad to switch! I am also using Hornady 140gr bullets in my .260 Rem {although I am considering a switch to 120gr or 130gr Barnes X's for my .260 Rem} I took both my Moose & Elk last fall with these 140gr Hornady bullets, so they too are proven game getters, I just think the Barnes would be that much better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

What are your experiences? I welcome any insight you can share on this.
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Just my oinion, but I would think that performance into dirt is a poor judge of what a bullet will do on game. If what you have used in the past ain't broken, no need ot fix it.

Up here in the "Great White North" I dug the spent bullets out of the snow bank about 75 yards behind where I had set our targets up on a powerline right of way. His Barnes X looked like a posterchild for a Barnes X Comercial with 4 petals folded back perfectly and it retained almost 95% by weight, I kept one of his bullets & weighed it at 142gr, it was a 150gr bullet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> By way of comparison, my 250gr Nosler spit off its jacket & lost the rear portion of the partition netting a total remaining weight of 133gr. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I know my 250gr Nosler Partition rounds work, I have taken many Moose, Elk, Bear & a few Deer with them over the years, but this disparity in performance has me stewing on a change in my reloading products. I will take a picture of what remains of my Partition bullet & his Barnes X Bullet & try to post them here once I get my film developed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ditto what saddlesore posted....................

Ken- when I used to shoot Xs I'd dig them out of the backstop too. I have a small bagful of them that range from the classic Barnes catalog picture to looking like unpeeled bananas! My conclusion on soil as a test medium was that it didn't replicate tissue very well. I shot several head of game animals (pronghorn, deer, and elk) shortly after they came out (early '90s) and only recovered two bullets. My experiences ranged from awe to disappointing.

I was most impressed with a 150 gr. bullet from my .270 Win. used on a cow elk. I shot her through both lungs on a broadside shot and the last step she took was the one right before the gun went off. Later that year I shot a whitetail with a 140 gr. from the same gun. I found the bullet between the hide and trachea while caping it and the petals had only folded back about 1/8". Impact velocity was about 2600 fps. The other bullet I recovered was a 100 gr. from a 6mm. It had lost 1 petal but boy did it penetrate (almost stem to stern-bad shot on my part)!

Most of the animals I shot reacted like those shot with a cup-and-core bullet. When hit through the lungs they ran a little ways and tipped over. Because of this I went back to the good ol' "ordinary bullets" for most of my hunting. For peace of mind, I still use premiums in my .270 for elk and in the 6mm for antelope and deer. I've decided to use Partitions though because I've yet to hear of one not opening up and the only one I've heard of actually coming apart on an animal was one written about by Mule Deer (I think) in one of his articles. I hear that Barnes has fixed the inconsistancies of the early days but I haven't felt the need to try them again. I second the motion of "If it ain't broke, dont fix it!"

dale

Ken: I have killed several moose with 230-grain FS bullets (close to X bullets), and last year's with a 250-grain A-Frame. I also killed another moose three years ago with a 250-grain Nosler Partition, and this moose dropped just as fast as other moose I have killed with the other bullets.



The partition is a controlled-expansion bullet, and the lead in front often expands just fast enough to do lots of internal damage, while the base plows through. The X is a completely different bullet, and it's designed to expand at a slower pace than the partition, and to retain most of its weight, while the Partition does not retain as much weight. Expansion on the snow does not mean much on game. If you want more of the classic expansion, then use Swift A-Frame, Trophy Bonded and other tougher bullets that are designed to retain more weight than the Partition.



I hear lots of good reports about the Barnes Triple-Shock, and two weights are available, one in 185 grains, and the other in 225 grains.

I'd worry first if the x's will even shoot out of your rifle. All rifles are different even if they are the same make/model.

That's akin to lamenting the switch to Smokeless propellant.

I'll take Smokeless and poke an X in front of 'em......................

Well, I used the last of my 250gr Nosler Partitions today, so I ran out & bought a 50 round box of 250gr Speer Grand Slam's because the shop didn't have any 225gr Barnes Tripple Shock available. I might just buy a box of the Barnes when I next get into Edmonton, to one of the larger sporting goods supply outfits, can't expect the smaller shops up here to stock every available bullet I guess. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Ken--

I have used both Partition and X enough on game (not dirt or snowbanks, though have shot a few of those too) to make some observations. First, the difference between them is one of degree, not kind. A good example would be two cartridges/loads I use a lot for deer-sized game, the .257 Roberts with 115 Partition at 2900+, and the 6.5x55 with 120 X at 2900+. It's rare to recover a bullet with either one, though it happens occasionally on angling shots, and deer die about the same way with either. (In fact, in my experience, deer die about the same way with a great many cartridges. Sometimes they'll fall to a lung shot, but just often they run about 30-40 yards before piling up.)

My conclusion after quite a few animals is that either bullet will work fine on game, providing deeper penetration than most other bullets, if that's what's needed.

My experience with recent X's is that they've solved the erratic expansion performance of the very early bullets, and do just fine. In fact, they open up VERY rapidly now; a 140 Triple Shock from a .270 opened up upon ENTERING a coyote last fall, yet another from the same rifle broke both shoulders of a spike elk. I have also found the newer X's to shoot a lot better than the old, especially the Triple Shock.

I have heard some hunters talk about Partitions "blowing up" over the years, but have found they mean the front core disappeared. This is how Noslers are DESIGNED to work--old John told me that personally some years ago. He wanted a bullet that would both expand rapidly and penetrate, so designed the front third to fly apart. THIS IS NOT A SIGN OF BULLET FAILURE, especially when a Partition is found in the offside of a dead beast.

You really can't go wrong with either.

MD

My experience so far with the Barnes triple shock in my 240 wby mag pleases me, at least from an accuracy perspective. I have not used it on game yet, but if it perfoms as you would expect an X bullet to perform, I am beginning to believe Barnes has finally hit the home run with the Triple Shock bullet design. I intend to also try them in a 25-06 I just purchased.

Ken, I have just recently tried some .257 75gr X bullets in my .250 AI. They, so far, are a little more accurate than average, having averaged 1.048" for twelve 3-shot groups with various loads. The rifle's average for 156 three-shot groups is 1.108". The best load with the Barnes X, so far, also happens to be the most accurate load in this rifle, averaging .607" for two 3-shot groups, with a max load of R15. Barnes Xs definitely bear more investigation.

John

Thanks for all the input guys, as I said in my earlier note I will buy some Barnes Tripple Shock in .264 & .338 Cal on my next trip to one of the larger gun shops in the city. After the loading I did yesterday I still have 30 Speer Grand Slam 250gr bullets & about 110 Hornady 140gr SP bullets available for reloading. So I need to be planning that trip to happen pretty soon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

It may be that my multiple positive experiences with the X bullets are an aberration but they seem to produce less blood shot damage than do the lead cored bullets. That I like since eating the catch is usually the number one priority for us. A number of years ago I even managed to mangle the rear end of a loping moose that was already wearing one hole low in the chest. The 225 grain 35 cal X made briquets of the pelvis but they were no more bloody than if one would take a hammer to a chunk of meat already hanging in the cooler. There was virtually no meat loss and that, in my experience, is more common than not with the X. The X is also one of the best bullets for hammering bone in my opinion which makes it ideal for any situation which calls for an on-the-spot drop (like that moose on the edge of, not yet in, the swamp.)

In spite of my liking of the X for my purposes in many of my rifles, I have really never run across any bad bullets when used for what and in the they were intended by the maker. The same I can't say for every shot I've taken. While many bullets are evaluated on how well they do on the first and, ideally, only shot needed, if one follows the principle of losing no animal even if it means an extra hole (or two), then the X becomes an even better bullet since it virtually always makes the first hole as long if not longer than just about anything else. And poorly placed follow-ups - (and who always places follow-ups perfectly?<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) - tend to be less messy than those made by many of the lead cored bullets. Even if we take the blame for a poor shot, the mess is no less messy.

Klikitarik,



That is a great explanation on the reality of capturing meat.



Great post.



I've seen many posts about how good ballistic tips (example) work out of some fast stepping, flat shooting, magnum but it's not my experience.



I've had, and seen, terrible performance out of bullets of that ilk and would prefer to have the penetration and ability to hold together that the X offers.

My default bullet has always been the partition, but I think the triple shock is Barnes' best offering to date.



The fact is, there is a whole lot of new technology out there in bullet construction and we all should keep an open mind.

My results with Barnes X has been erratic specific to accuracy and fouling. I continued to rely on Noslers as the primary hunting bullet for my 338WM and 270W. The Triple Shock changed that and I await more choices with glee!

Now my best accuracy AND velocity come from Triple Shocks. Fouling isn't a problem. While I have only shot one elk, two deer, and one antelope with this bullet, I am of the opinion that it may become the standard by which all premium bullets are judged.

I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Triple Shock for any big game hunting.

Ditto!!