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He was free-soloing a rock face once, supposedly without a rope and I told my son "he has to be using a rope." A few seconds later, we saw the rope flash on the screen for just an instant. My son re-wound and we saw the rope clearly. That's taking it beyond ridiculous to just plain BS--pretending that you're free-soloing up out of a box canyon when you're really roped up the whole time. And should have just walked out the other end anyway. Dishonest too.

Sorry for the tangential rant, carry on.

My pack has a detachable "kit" that has an attachable shoulder strap. I have this set up as my primary survival kit. It stays on my hunting pack at all time when I'm using that pack, and if I switch to another pack, it goes in/on that pack, or is carried solo.

It has a 1st aid kit, 3 different fire making tools, emergency blanket, an extra compass, folding saw, etc. I have a small bubble compass on the strap of my binoculars as they're always around my neck as well.

1st issue for me when I think I'm "lost" is sit down and think. Being prepared to spend/survive the night in the woods always allows me to think clearer and make much better/safer decisions.

Mike.

I'd say it all depends on your level of expertise. For the Average Joe, the best thing you can do is look for shelter and stay put until found as you may only just get yourself in further trouble. For those that have the equipment, knowledge, and experience, then you might think about finding food. Honestly, if you expect to spend a lot of time in the wilderness, I feel it would behoove you to at least read up on survival, build a kit, and camp with it in a scenario where you know where you are, though I would say take a course if you can.

The more time you spend in the wilderness, the greater the chance you will someday find yourself in a survival situation and it doesn't even have to be through stupidity or getting lost. There are a myriad of other ways you can get stuck in a survival situation, from inclement weather to injury to impediment (you never know when a rockslide or flood might force you to take an entirely different route that makes your day hike take two).

spent a night out or three without much in the way of gear.

I'm with others that said they'd prefer a dab of gear to make it a more comfortable experience.

I'd like to think I could make it back to wherever I need to be barring an injury that left me immobile.

but dang I sure do hate to think of losing my fire makings and knife, what a pizzer.

amazing to me the comfort and security that can reside in a small fanny or daypack. worth the weight to me.

that said, there's always redundant firemakings in my pockets and an opinel knife.


stay safe, and if you find that too much to ask, at least make it a good story for the rest of us to read about!

I'd like to think so as well, though there may come a point where I realize that the new route I'm forced to take is going to take far longer than I have endurance for and/or require me to hike through the dark of night. At that point, I'd rather seek shelter, start a fire and try to rest until day break and finish the trek in the morning.

I agree with AlaskanFlyboy--there are other ways to end up surviving besides getting lost whilst hunting or hiking. And studying all kinds of survival could help anyone.
Airplanes crash, skiers stray, floaters flip their boats, vehicles break down, boats sink, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc. etc. So surviving comes down to your knowledge and expertise in these varying situations and so I read everything I can on land and sea survival, whether stories or technique, because I need the info to know how to avoid these situations or how to survive them.
One of the best tools that I have found so far is the Woodsmaster series of DVD's from Ron Hood, www.survival.com , it's the next best thing to being there and with the videos you can watch over and over and then go out and practice.
It is one thing to have all the right stuff in your kit, and the kit with you at all times, but its another to be able to use the stuff to survive the many possible scenarios that you could find yourself in.

I live in Spokane which has Fairchild AFB, the center of the USAF's SERE (Survive, Evade, Resist, Escape) school and I have a good number of buddies I've met from church that are instructors in it. In fact, I'm going to the wedding of one of them today. I've learned a bit from them, but they're definitely not the stay-put-and-be-found types which requires that I take some of their advice with a grain of salt. These are the guys that train to eat bugs and half raw rabbits for protein while trying to stay hidden and on the move. They've offered to take me out for survival training before because they all enjoy the heck out of it, but I kinda chickened out at the prospect of eating earth worms, grubs, ants, and maggots. Learning to snare small game would have been interesting to learn though.

I've also read the US Army Survival Manual and it has a lot of tips on how to survive should you get lost, cut off, or have your transport crash. Again though, the focus in that book is on surviving in a situation where you have more than just search-and-rescue trying to find, you have search-and-destroy also looking for you.

And I was actually just mentioning things beyond your control that can happen while hunting or hiking besides getting lost, but you're right RazorSharp. When I lived in Alaska, there were couple of times that I spent days in blizzards with a propane heater for heat, oil lamps for light, and luke warm water out of old milk jugs. Thank God we had a natural gas stove and those things still somehow work without power in the region, so at least cooking wasn't a chore. I was a kid then, and part of any family's home survival kit should include a generous selection of board games and stories or else you'll likely strangle your children within the first few hours.

Ditto to above. I developed and refined my list of always-carry gear while on long cold nights wishing I had one or a few specific items, some of which didn't exist off the shelf so I have cobbled up.

There's some good info here on the forum. I just came in last night from a few days soloing out of my rig in mountains over 50 miles from pavement, hunting whitetails among grizzlies. In my pants/shirt pockets were ALWAYS a knife, two Bic lighters and a compass. In my Gorte-tex jacket were always a fleece toque (stocking cap) and gloves. Always other stuff as well but these items never varied. I normally have neck gaiters in the jacket also but the vest I wore all the time this trip zips up to the equivalent, so the neck gaiters stayed in my day pack along with more fire starters, space blacket, cord, etc.

I also like the wristlets, and wish I knew where to find more when my Turtle Fur pair wear out or I lose them. Mine extend just past the knuckles on my hand and have a thumb hole.

Three topics quoted: 1. compass, 2. what if you miss your destination and keep going on the compass heading, and 3. maps.

1. I felt the same about a compass until I moved to Canada and started hunting places where the nearest road in three directions might be several hundred miles away. Those are often in flat or rolling timber and bog country where I've never met anyone who could retain his sense of direction, especially in fog, etc. I started hunting with a superb hunter and friend, a good old boy who grew up in the US backwoods disdainfull of a compass but who had learned to use it routinely in Canada.

Once I got to using a compass to navigate TO a good hunting spot (not just find my way out) it became a regular hunting tool, useful for finding down game, the starting point of a blood trail across a lake or canyon, and yes, back to my camp or rig. I use a compass for hunting as casually as a pocket knife.

The following comments go into how a compass can do you some good even if you don't know where you are, at least if you used your head enough to have a general idea of where you are I.e. "I am west of the Colockum Road no farther at most than I walked since I left my vehicle."

2. What if you miss the end of a road with your compass heading? Very bad. Unless you have a wider "backstop" target destination beyond the road, like a river or another road you can't miss.

I nearly died once when I depended on returning to the end of a straight road on a vast plateau of moose swamp and spruce timber. Soo... I never go out into such a place without either one of two rules in place. First and preferable is a backstop I can't miss no matter how lost I get. I.e. a logging road that runs generally north and south for 50 miles each way from where I am hunting off of it. If I am east of that main road, any westward compass course will hit it, even if I miss the spur road where my rig is parked. Second, if no such backstop exists, then I strictly stick with compass headings from known points on my way in and out. I don't like that method because it doesn't allow me to roam at random, follow game without keeping track of where I am, etc. but it works.

None of this applies if you have identifiable mountains and streams, etc. Try that on a timbered plateau 12 miles across that seep drains its threads of swamps off three sides, no peaks in any direction, in heavy overcast.

GPS? Very useful, but I don't trust my life to batteries, and have a fail safe compass plan to back it. My favorite moose area is undulating swamp and THICK timber for miles, but has roads the full length along two sides of it that intersect on the northwest "corner" of it. I can track moose, wander where wind and good hunting lead me, and whenever I want out, I pull out a compass preset to a northeast heading and follow it out. If I think that I am closer to the northern boundary road, I may change the heading to due north. But any compass heading between due north and due west will take me to a familiar road, so I don't even have to be precise in following the heading.

3. I have rarely used a map in finding my way out from being lost, but I use topo maps constantly in several hunting situations. To me, the topo map is a hunting tool. In most hunting situations on foot, unless it is a familiar small block of timber bounded by roads, my hunting companions and I each keep a topo map in a Zip-lock bag, prefolded to show the area we are without opening the Zip-lock. We've killed several critters from moose to elk, deer and one cougar, by picking terrain features off the map to hunt. You can navigate to a pre-selected spot, hunt a route (maybe a forked ridge or creek line) from there to to the next place or improvise as you compare map to features on the ground when you get there, etc. If you use it that way, when it comes to being lost or finding your way out, either you already know where you are on the map because you kept track, or you have it narrowed down to a few places you could be on the map.

A map and compass are tools similar to a rifle, their usefulness greatly depends on the expertise of the user. If lost, I would recommend finding at least three unique landmarks to try and find on your topo map. The more you look for around you, the less likely you are to mistake them for similar landmarks. Also, use the compass to find north so you know what direction these things would be running on your map. It's harder to find a stream with a unique bend in it or a ridge with three distinct peaks in it when you don't know if they're running more north-south or east-west.

The one thing that months fallowing the closing of deer/elk hunting seaons are especially good for that can not be said of the rest of the year is it is the best time to put your knowledge of survival and your survival gear to the actual test in the feild during the weather you are most likely to encounter while hunting.

I have always advised to anyone who hunts, but especially so to anyone who hunts in the mountains to once seasons over, pick a night that will be dominated by bad weahter, ie: cold, snow or rain or a mix of both and even high winds. Go to a area of woods that allows camping and find an area with in a short walking distance of your vehicle and using only your survial gear, spend the night out of doors.

It is truely THE only way you will be able to determine if your capable of surviving, determine what equipment you picked works, how well it works or does not, as well as finding out if any survival plan you may have drawn up is practicle and will work.

The first time you ever have to actually spend the night out of doors in the hunting woods should never ever, ever be because you have no choice in the matter. Several practice sessions done prior will be of value beyond calculation if you ever find yourself in a situation of having to unexpectedly spend the night or nights out of doors.

I started out with my first session on a cold moonless January night that got down to around 20*. I then moved on up to nights that were as cold but with it snowing, and than fallowed that with a night that was raining and just above feezing.

Let me tell you it opened my eyes to the reality of just how easy one can die from over exposure to the elaments if not properly prepaired for them. It also went a looooooong way to remove the so called "boogie man" elament of fearing the unknown once you have spent the night out of doors in poor weather and did it well enough to have confidence you could do it with little concern about your serviving.

Bottom line is THE ONLY, repeat, ONLY WAY you can become good at any skill and learn how to do something with confidence is by actually doing it.

Ageed, wholeheartedly. The rule of 6 Ps. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Plan, then test, then revise your plan, then test your new arrangement. Planning is first and foremost in your head. That is your most important survival gear.

Years back, a my hunting bud and I purposely failed to return to the truck that night because we decided to test our knowledge and gear. To make life fun, we swapped packs. It was a good lesson for both of us, and has helped me more than once.

Below is a picture of what I might typically be in my pack for a day out in the NY or Maine woods (Aroostook or Penobscot Counties). Some of you might find it to be overkill, but I take comfort knowing that I could survive a night in the woods (or several) when the temps. dip below the freezing mark. Obviously, gun or bow, ammo, WARM clothing, scarf, spare hat/gloves etc. are in addition to what's in the photo. I should also mention that for the possibility of an extended stay out in the wilderness, a light weight single wall tent, stove and gas lantern would also be in my pack (Gaz brand is my preferred brand).

I accidentally cut off the right side of the pic., so i'll list my suggested items:

*50 - 100' of light cord (parachute) uses= support for shelter, hanging food/gear
in a tree, etc.

*20-30' of heavier rope uses= game drag/hoist

*leatherman tool = pliers, file, knife blade, file, etc.

*folding saw w/bone & wood blade = firewood, make a crutch, "header poles" for
shelter. quartering an animal, etc.

* 2 knives (I show 2 sheath knives, but 1 folder/ 1 sheath will work obviously) & SHARPENER

* Water (i usually pack 2 bottles and keep one on my person, so it does not become a block of ice. (i will sometimes carry a juice box too). For exteneded trips i'll pack my Katadin water purifier & iodine tablets (NOT IN PHOTO)

*First Aid Kit. = It might be overkill, but I carry my Adventurer medical kit. I regularly go through the kit to replace out of date or used items (cut off in photo)

*2 flashlights and spre batteries/ bulbs (my choice is a Surefire 6P and 4xAA dive light)

*RED safety strobe and Cyalume light sticks = not that traveling through the woods at night is a good idea, but sometimes (animal down, health emergency) it's neccessary and the light sticks and strobe can be seen from a great distance (light sticks also save battery power in a shelter)

*TOPO Map of area, COMPASS and GPS (spare batteries double for flashlight/GPS..... AND the knowledge of how to use them. I grew up in a pre-GPS world, so traveling by map/compass and a SMALL amount of "dead wreckoning" have gotten me out of more than one situation over the years. PAY ATTENTION TO LANDMARKS!

*AT LEAST 2 (3 is better) ways of starting a fire. My buddy carries a Zippo, but it's just too stinky in my opinion. I have had Bic lighters fail in extreme cold, so one is always in a inside pocket, close to my body. Wooden matches and a fire starting flint (not in photo) are also a good idea.

*ORANGE marking ribbon (several yards) & glow tacks = enable you to leave a trail should someone need to follow you, or if you need to backtrack.

*Food. = While we all know you would not die from starvation in a day or two, but cliff bars, Kudos, or the like will allow you to keep your energy up and fight off the cold. (a squirrel or rabbit over an open fire tastes pretty good too)

*Red Bandana = signaling, nose blowing etc.

*small amount of TP and or paper towels for when nature calls (don't go waving it around during hunting season..... i have yet to find orange or camo TP..... maybe the next Cabela's catalog? :-))

*ORANGE PONCHO/2 large plastic garbage bags = rain gear, shelter roof/walls ( I also carry 4 clothes pins and a SMALL amount of DUCT tape for shelter building.

*Writing pad/ pen(s) and or pencil(s) = leaving a note should someone come looking for you (include time/date, health condition, game plan, phone numbers to contact, etc.)

*Game cleaning gloves/ cheese cloth = self explanitory

*several packs of "Hot Hands" or the like. Hand, feet, body warmers

*Space blanket = inexpensive, light weight & reflects most of your body heat back to you.

* FRS radio / earpiece (nothing worse than beeping & booping when your in the woods



Now, I know that many of you could school me in survival skills, but this is just my personal opinion for over 30 years of deer hunting. I have heard horror stories at hunting camps of grown men panicing when lost at dusk in the woods. One story even involved a man that dumped all his gear and stripped naked (insane panic?) and was found (luckily) that way by the rescue party.

Like a float plan when boating in the Ocean, It's a MUST to let people know in advance where you plan to go/be/return from a trip, as when going out in to the wilderness without anyone knowing your whereabouts, something as treatable as a broken arm or leg could mean death.

In addition to what i've listed, personal medication, sun block (scentless), bug spray, sunglasses, extra rounds of ammo are JUST SOME of the things you may want to include in your kit.

Best wishes to all for a safe hunting season and a very Happy Thanksgiving! -TomT

Good list, Tom. Thanks for sharing.

One thing that I carry is a 1 pound coffee can with a bail, some sugar and tea bags, and a couple of bread sacks stuffed in the can (along with other junk, too). Warmth is important and if you can get warmth into you, you're better off. So, I have the billy can to heat water and make tea, and for the quick energy, I put in the sugar.

The bread sacks are to keep the water in the can when I haul it from the creek to where my bivouac is. I put the sack in the can, then fill up the can and tie the sack at the top. That way I still have a full can of water when I get back to my fire; it hasn't all slopped out over the top of the can. With just a little fiddling, I can pull out the bread sack and leave just the water in the can.

As I mentioned in another thread on the forum, it helps to have a secondary survival kit on your person in case you somehow lose your pack. It wouldn't be one nearly as comprehensive as the one in the pack, but it would be enough to get you by. One like this would do, though I would personally add a trash bag or two and a small roll of duct tape, some wire and twine. This has more of the items I feel are missing out of the other, but I don't like the tin foil, no matter how "heavy-duty" they claim it to be. I'd replace it with trash bags or a space blanket. You could likely fit the two together for a good kit within the first kit's plastic case with it fitting tightly enough to eliminate any noise.

TomT - How much does that all weigh?

One of these full of storm matches and a decent knife would be my minimal for a pocket.

kevinh1157.

Very good question. Although i've never dropped my daypack on a scale, I bet it has to weigh everybit of 15-20lbs when loaded. It's certainly not a bag I would carry for a day on a small piece of property (50-200 acres), but if i'm headed out into the "BIG WOODS".... i'm only too happy to haul it. The bag doesn't bother me, as i'm used to hauling a 20+ pound pack daily with laptop, battery, power cord, i-phone, etc for work every day. What does slow me down is if i'm packing my Summit / Viper treestand (about 20 lbs give or take) as well as my rifle and survival gear. I usually strap my daypack "inside" my stand and wear the shoulderstraps for my stand. I used to try to put my survival gear in my jacket pockets and just take the stand, but it was too bulky. It's taken me years to come up with my personal favorite setup. I'm 41, so i'm obviously on the downside of my strength curve. Hell, in my 20's, I used to carry a steel climbing stand that was over 45lbs by itself (both 1/2's of stand). I don't think I could do that anymore. I've also become very good at reducing layers, so I can move without getting overheated, and add layers as needed (my daypack and/or treestand usually have my extra clothing lashed to it)

I forgot that I just bought a new fish scale (boats out of the water till next April :-( ) so I just weighed my pack and rifle:

daypack (items listed in above post by me), 6 extra rounds .300 Savage, prussix rope for stand, "tree umbrella" (the camo type that does 270degrees or so & wraps around tree above my stand) and a styrofoam filled hot seat (don't always hunt from stand) comes in at around 18lbs. My post WW2 Savage 99F (22"barrel) with a b&l 2.5-8 scope weighs in at 7.5 lbs and the treestand is listed (on the Net) at 20 lbs so...........

Daypack = 18 lbs
rifle = 7.5 lbs
stand = 20 lbs
___________________________
total carry = 45.5 lbs


Sounds like alot, but my stand moves very little (if at all) during the season, so it's really included for a haul in- haul out only.

There are a few additional things that I wanted to mention that I omitted in my lengthy item list last time (more for beginners than you hard core guys):

Pine bows make for a good bed when cut and piled up under a shelter. They can also be used for a shelter cover. They smell good, but expect them to be a bit sticky.

The bark of the White Birch tree will burn even when wet (something to do with cellulose). If need be put a couple of pieces of the bark close to your body to dry it a bit, but it will work.


-TomT

In a nutshell...

Once you are lost 50 or 60 times, with the appropriate gear, it ain't no big deal....