Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Single Shots What is the perfect SS action design

There are and have been a lot of single shot designs and I have looked at and researched a large number of them. (I have an extensive library on the subject). Also since I have been single for 25 years my time is and has not been encumbered by a significant other distraction.
This thread has nothing to do with caliber, that is a different subject all together.

Here is the question: What is the perfect design for a single shot?
This is not an easy question and in my opinion the design, so far, does not exist. Every design of the past and present fails in one way or another and all fail when you try to match them against a bolt action. Not because SS guns only shot one shot but rather they just do not measure up in accuracy. Now I can understand and hear the screaming now but they just don't show up on the brenchrest circuit and this is for a reasons.

Many of you know I have designed and built a number of single shots. I have shot competition schutzen, buffalo (long range), and benchrest (bolt guns here cause I wanted to be in the game).
I have never shared any of my designs before with anyone however I choose to show a design (below) I created a few years back but have never built. Here are the features of this design that make me think this may be a canidate for as good as it gets (IMO):
1. It features a one piece rifle stock (very similar to a standard bolt action in stock design and inletting and bedding)
2. Lever opens only 45 degrees
3. Bolt action recoil lug
4. short hammer fall for quick lock time
5. Automatic ejector ( an unfired cartridge is extracted while a fired case is ejected fully out of the gun)
6. Narrow locking lugs which control headspace and case stretch
7. Lever lock up is based on an over senter cam so there is no lever catch that holds the action closed and needs to be released to open it

Now please be constructive and remember all that I say is my opinion based on nearly 50 years of guns, gun building, gun engraving and shooting. Also I will be the first to admit I do not know it all and strive everyday to learn something new.

Some interesting ideas there.

I've always suspected a striker-fired falling block action would cause less disturbance during firing than a hammer-fired action.

I like the idea of the selective cartridge deflector Browning had. Never used one to see how well it works, though.

Tang safety or left side of grip safety.

I find the trigger guard itself used as action lever, like your design and the Sharps-Borchardt, to be awkward.

Make it fit a Rem 700 short action stock.

How soon will you be selling these?

Bruce

I'd agree, but then you might as well have a bolt action since you lose all the benefits of a super short action.

Falling blocks are never going to be a benchrest competitor (even though some shoot very well). They will belong to collectors, tinkerers and hunters.

Only thin I would add is another pillar support at the back tang/triggerplate.

I think a two piece stock is some of what adds to the beauty of a falling block...

But, in line with your design, would the bedding be easier if you extended the rear part of the action to fill in the gap that is behind the recoil lug? You could lengthen the recoil lug so it would still be functional.

John

I have to agree with Hondo that the two piece stock is part of what makes a falling block rifle so gorgeous. However, I like the idea of the single piece stock as I agree it should make leaps and bounds in the accuracy department, but like Marlinman said, I think a rear stock attachment point is much needed.

There are some very accurate Martini's with two piece stocks, and then there is that military thing with a 2 piece stock and 2 piece receiver that is pretty accurate.

I think the problem with a 2 piece stock is the way the buttstock and forend are attached to the receiver. Many of the new military-police bolt action "sniper" rifles have 2 piece stocks.

Bruce

I see this action as being for the SS hunter rather than the aesthetics minded afficionado. As such, I would like for the lever to be extended for quicker reloads under stress. Perhaps a well bedded one piece stock would make for better accuracy repeatability, which seems to be an issue with many SS rifles. I'm thinking especially of shifting point of impact on that all important first shot of the day.

What accuracy range are you shooting for ,and the pun was intended. Since this seems to be your single criteria for determining your need. You cannot be searching for a gun to use in the field and hope to even think about the accuracy achieved by the benchrest group. What would your ultimate use be for such a firearm. Certainly not for hunting most game. I would like to know what uses such an action would have to full fill and what caliber range would be envisioned. I would imagine a plain old Ruger No 1 tricked out with the proper barrel and trigger and bench mounting apparatus such as I have seen on bench guns could compete with some degree of accuracy but it would be completely impractical for any other purpose as are the most accurate bench guns I've seen. End use to me would probably determine the design more than accuracy per se.

Zimhunter,
You lose me abit in your response.
Only "accurate" guns are interesting, so why won't you strive for that first and everything else follows? This design could be for any caliber and any hunting use. (Although a 470 NE on a single shot seems to be a strange combination. 470NE...dangerous game....single shot...not for me I don't think I could trust a PH for that much back up. IMHO)
This is my design and the question asked was for what you thought was yours. If you buy a Ruger #1 remember that is all you have when your done. There is nothing wrong with them if that is your perfect design. They have sold a lot so the design has merit. I remember when Bill R introduced them and I salivated for sometime.

Cypress and others...if you have access to the book "The British Falling Block Breechloading Rifle" by Jonathan Kirton, look on pages 130 & 131. You will see a Gibb rifle built on a Farquharson action with a 1 piece stock. This rifle pictured is a small caliber Rook rifle but I have seen another in a much larger caliber. These guns influenced my design. Iwill try to post a picture if I can.

Are you suggesting a spur on the back of the trigger guard? If so might be a good idea, quicker then putting your thumb inside the guard.

LRF,
I guess I'm missing something with this action thing, are you doing it just for the fun of it or is there a more serious purpose in doing it. If you are trying to improve on what's available to day I don't think it's going to be much of an improvement on a Ruger # 1, or any good Bolt gun, in fact I don't think it will shoot as good as a # 1.

My outlook on a Traditional falling block Single Shot Rifle, the kind with a two piece stock, is that there's nothing on the market today that can match the # 1 at a reasonable price, lets say under $ 1500. ( a highly tricked out # 1 ) So my question is this, if it's not going to shoot as good as a Bolt gun, and it's not an improvement on the # 1, what is the purpose, if it's just for personal satisfaction that's good enough, good for you, but if your trying to come up with something better that what we already have I'm sorry to say that I don't you will have much luck with it.
S/S

If only 'accurate ' guns are interesting why are you concerned with a falling block single shot? It seems to me you have a search but haven't any idea what you are searchinf FOR. If it is purely accuracy then you are going in the wrong direction. I can almost assure you if there was something better than the current benchrest/railguns they would be using them to set the records. I just plain have no idea what you are asking for. Of course there was a man once who tilted with windmills and I never could figure out what he was looking for either. Incidentally the only three single shots I have are in calibers 9.3x74R,405Win,and 450/400 Nitro. Any one of which I would without hesitation take against dangerous game as many others have in the distant past and the immediate past.

Your breechblock design is reminiscent of the Aydt, IMO.

In my 45 years of shooting, etc, etc - I have shot/owned/borrowed over thirty different single shot rifles.

There were Trapdoors, Sharp's, Handi's, Savage 219's, Winchester FB's, B-78 & 1885's, TCR Aristocrat's, 87's & Contender/Encore, Steven's Favorite's, Ruger #1 & #3's, Remington rollers, a Dakota, and a Kreighoff Hubertus.

I have not tried the newer Knight KP1, the Mossberg SSI or the Merkel K1.

The "perfect" SS action design (of those I have used) varies for me, depending upon what I wanted to use the rifle for.

I have absolutely ruled out the external hammer types for all uses by me (Sharps/Trapdoor/etc), as I find the slow lock times and heavy hammer fall disturbing to my aim & shooting style.

I have come to like the better-made shotgun-type break-open rifles (TCR/Merkel/Kreighoff) for stalking/hunting uses - as they seem to be the lightest-for-power, and handle extremely well for me.

For more "deliberate" shooting, as at targets or from a treestand at game, I prefer a somewhat heavier, falling block rifle (often, but not always, scoped) - like a Ruger, Winchester or Browning Highwall.

For me, the Dakota fell between the above categories - being neither fish nor fowl - but very handsome, indeed.

For casual shooting/plinking, I enjoy a small/petite rolling block most - like a Remington #4.

.

LRF,
I re-read your post and will try to answer in the following manner:

LRF said:
Here are the features of this design that make me think this may be a canidate for as good as it gets (IMO):

LRF:
1. It features a one piece rifle stock ( very similar to a standard bolt action in stock design and inletting and bedding ).

S/S:
I don't think a one piece stock will help in any way, IMO it wont help that much with the accuracy of a falling block rifle. # 1's can be tuned to shoot 1/2 inch or less at 100 yds. what more should one expect out of a non target rifle.

LRF:
2. Lever opens only 45 degrees.

S/S:
It would be a nice thing but like engraving not really necessary. I would not need it.

LRF:
3. Bolt action recoil lug.

S/S:
From an accuracy standpoint you may be on to something there but if this in not a good enough design to be a target gun, how much accuracy do you really need in a hunting gun. All of my # 1's are tuned and like I've said, without much trouble they will shoot 1/2 inch or less at a 100 yds.

LRF:
4. short hammer fall for quick lock time.

S/S:
It's always nice to have a good trigger and fast lock time and a must have if target shooting. This is something I could not live without.

LRF:
5. Automatic ejector ( an unfired cartridge is extracted while a fired case is ejected fully out of the gun ).

S/S:
Again, nice, but like engraving not really required. I could live without it.

LRF:
6. Narrow locking lugs which control headspace and case stretch.

S/S:
You lost me on this one, I've never had a headspace or a case stretching problem with any of my Falling Blocks, and I do a lot of shooting. How do you put "locking lugs" on a falling block.

LRF:
7. Lever lock up is based on an over senter cam so there is no lever catch that holds the action closed and needs to be released to open it

S/S:
The Ruger # 1 and # 3 has pretty much solved the lever problems. I can very easily live with the Ruger levers.

Now please be constructive and remember all that I say is my opinion based on nearly 50 years of guns, gun building, gun engraving and shooting. Also I will be the first to admit I do not know it all and strive everyday to learn something new.

Here is the question: What is the perfect design for a single shot ?.

OK, now on to your question. Of all the factory out of the box Traditional falling block Single Shot Rifles that I have hunted with and shot in competition IMO the Ruger # 1 is the finest, is it perfect, no way, what does it need right out of the box:

1-A much better Trigger, and they are available.

2-A Lighter Hammer, and there available.

3-A Speed Mainspring, and there available.

Improvements not available at this time:

1-A striker type firing pin, that would eliminate any swinging hammer and mainspring problems.

So my answer as to what is the perfect design for a single shot, without a doubt the Ruger # 1 with some improvements.
S/S

Single shot,
You have some good points here. Thanks for the comments.

One attribute of my design not previously discussed and part of the reason I did work on this was weight. I want to see if I could design a sub 7 pound rifle including scope & sling. (You carry a gun far more then it ever gets shot)
Only building would tell for sure but my design removes a fair amount of steel thats otherwise, as in most designs, only real purpose is to provide butt stock and forearm wood attachment.

If I was to build this it would be for a 6mm cartridge and with antcipated shooting range required for goat (mountain or prairie) and sheep.

LRF,
Yes, exactly. Done with style it will improve the rifle's aesthetics as well. It's also an opportunity to add a mark of distinction to your design, like the levers do on the Ruger, Dakota, Hagn, the old Schuetzens, etc.

My humble opinion,
Because the #1 can be guncranked into better performance is no reason not to attempt to design something even better. The #1 is great and we all love it. But it's too damn heavy and we all know it. This fact alone makes much room for improvement in falling block design. Ruger is never going to do it, so it's up to others to try.

Even more traditional designs like the Dakota and Hagn make the SS lovers world richer. Why not a falling block with a one piece stock? It doesn't have to render the #1 obsolete to be a welcome addition to the field. Our world will be richer for it.

I think you have begun your quest by making a few faulty assumptions...

The first is that all two piece stocked singleshot rifles have accuracy issues. That just isn't the case. I don't think I've ever heard anyone that shoots a Hagn, Hall, Peregine, Dakota 10, Merkel, Ollendorf, or Blaser ss rifle ever complain about their accuracy. And most of these rifles are used for the hunting you describe, alpine mountain hunting for sheep, deer, goats, etc...

The one rifle that gets mentioned for ill accuracy is the Ruger No.1 and I suspect you will find more No.1's that are sub MOA shooters than are 2 MOA or more. Most have to do with Ruger's outsourced barrels or the bedding issue. If the No.1 has a good barrel on it, it can be tuned to shoot quite good.

Another area used addressed is strength. None of the modern falling block actions are lacking in strength. Certainly not the Hagn, Hall, Dakota, Ruger etc... All are more than strong enough to house today's hottest cartridges. The break type actioned rifles, the Ollendorfs, Blasers and Merkels are all sufficiently strong to house cartridges like the 7x65R, 300 Mags, etc... They aren't lacking in strength either.

If you are indeed looking for the ultimate singleshot rifle as far as accuracy is concerned, why not just look to some of the bolt action singleshot rifles and be done with it?

Hello - Interesting discussion here - I also have been pondering this issue for many years, and have at least 20 falling block and "kipplauf" concepts committed to paper . . but it is a big jump to actually building one of them, both in terms of the $$, but also the courage to test the idea !!

I own several sigle shots, including a couple of Rugers, and a one piece stock .22 martini ( a Vickers) that will comfortably shoot with a Anschultz Match 54 in full ISF kit - in other words its accurate !!

Anyhow you requested feedback so here goes . . .

Simple is best, the Ruger is far too complex in my opinion, I know that there were probably objectives met though the complexity but its fussy and not readily serviceable in the field.

Your recoil lug is interesting, but you have at least as much area at the "heel" of the action under the tang, and if you research stocks for target rifles (particularly mauser and its derivatives) you will find that there are issues with the stock flexing in the area of the magazine inlet - why not eliminate this potential issue by using the heel (and lose the tang in the process, it is only for looks unless you are thinking of tang sights) It'll be easier to build without it too. See Gentry's patents - he has cited this.

The short hammer throw is admirable, but the steep pin angle of your design will cause a lot of headaches and lose you the benefits of the short lock time through the setting up of rotational (as opposed to lineal) "torques". This is the one big advantage of the Martini and Borchart actions, and in my opinion, the only reason why Martini actions .22's were able to remain compeditive for so long against bolt actions despite their many other disadvantages such as non symetrical locking. Getting back to the angled firing pin, the "strike" of the pin is bound to cause the cartridge to "offset" to some degree - this when everything else one tries to do is to achieve concentricity.

Finally I think a new paradigm is needed to make falling blocks more "scope friendly", none of the current SS's (including the kipplaufs) has "clear" access to the breechface when a scope of normal eye relief is fitted - one is always fiddling around or under the scope.

I love the way you have modelled this design, it really means it can be prototyped without actually building one. I would love to have one of my designs developed this way (don't have the skills myself) as its such a good way of advancing things - so well done.

I have often though it would be good to produce CNC plans for simple single shot that could be produced "locally" - sort of like "open source" software, everyone uses it and contributes to the design where they can.

Cheers - Foster

Tentman,
Thanks...appreciated your response.
I use Solidworks for this design but I also have AutoCAD.

Send me a PM with your email address and I will send your some pictures you may have interest in.

Little bit a Gentry a little bit of Highlander? I'd love to see a big bore Highlander action.