Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters recoil realism rant

Back in my twenties,I shot a lot of NRA leagues(DCM) for 10 weeks eah year. Sometimes two leagues per year. I started off with an old 03 Springfiled.06.In those days the clubs gave you the DCM ammo that they got,but I still reloaded for practice. Probably shooting 200 rds per week.
I weighed about 130lbs,and on the 600 yd line ,shooting prone, the 03 would drive me backwards after several shots. Shooters one each side of me would start to complain about my muzzle blast and I would have to crawl back up to the line.

I had a slip on recoil pad and in the early years,it was not uncommon for me to have a big bruise on my shoulder. I did get use to the recoil,but must admit I was never a very good shooter. I came close to expert ,but that was about all.
Through the years I went through the magnum craze with a 7mm Rem and then a 7mm Weatheby mag. I had shot a 300 and decided that wasn't for me.Then I went the 45-70 way and found out shooting a 500 gr bullet was not fun at all with steel butt plate in Browning 1886 reproduction.
I'm a little older than Mule Deer ,and I came to the same conclusion as he did, but a few years earlier. I didn't see any game dying any qicker with the big boomers, so I setteld on a pre 64 .06 that I inherited from my inlaws after my FIL passed away.

I restcoced it to fit me and I shoot it fairly well.

All those years shooting competition took a toll on my shoulder and I don't need to feel the recoil any more.

I wish there was some way that us older guys could convince the youngster that the trauma on thier shoulders in the early life will come back to haunt them in later years. You might say the recoil doesn't bother you now,but some day it will

Everyone has a recoil limit. The main thing is understanding where it is and dealing with it. I have a son who is fine with his 30-06 but hates my 338WM, so he should not shoot the 338.
My oldest son is happy with the 338 and a 450 Marlin (which IMO has much more felt recoil).
The question is how do you know your limits unless you press them?
You need enough gun� but a good shot with a 06 is better than a bad shot with a 338

Good post. Biggest magnum I've got in the safe is a 300WM and it's set up to hunt where the distances can be long and to take advantage of that opportunity should it present itself. While it's not my favorite to shoot, I don't mind the first 10 or so at the range. That being said, this year I did most of my elk hunting with a 7-08 cause I like the platform (Kimber 84)and know it'll do the job. When I knew I was going to be in the really thick stuff all day, I took my old 30-30. I, for one, am grateful that as I've gotten older, I have actually attained some degree of wisdom and when I'm carrying that 7-08 I feel pretty savvy.

It's always good to read the comments of those with more, or different, experience(s) than I have. I find many of them remarkably similar to my own in this case.
At one time, I was the only cop on my big city PD that could, or would, qualify with an S&W, 4 inch .44 Magnum. Full power loads and all.
Had a rep for being the guy to test the handloads of others in their .375 H&H's. Rifles they were not eager to shoot.
I've owned a hunted with a few 7mm Mags, etc. and hunted a borrowed .338.
What I've learned is I can train myself to shoot one. But I've also learned that under stress, and game shooting is always stressful, I shoot better with a lighter rd. Sometimes, such as on off days, much better.
That, on top of learning that premium bullets like the Nosler Partition really do make the smaller, lighter rds. better giant killers.
Yes, yes, I know. No lighter round can kill as well as the big boomers. I've seen the .338 WM kill much better at 300 plus yds. than anything lighter, no matter what bullet the lighter rd is loaded with. If you load an NP bullet in 7X57 to make it more effective, you can the same to a .338 WM.
What I've learned is they die if you blow a hole through the lungs. It's best if the bullet exits and leave a blood trail. I've also learned that the elk class stuff can go surprisingly far even with a good lung shot. And with a bad hit from anything, you've got a real problem with that class of animal.
So, given that I really don't shoot enough to get as good as I think I need to be, I've decided that the '06-.308 class of cartriage is going to be it for me and the big game that I hunt. E

Its not allways recoil and or flinch that makes you miss an otherwise easy shot.
This past hunting season, a youg lady in our party had shot her first buck.
It was climbing a steep slope away from us and the farther it went the farther I was going to hav to go to get him.
He was about 250 yards away, not an easy shot but I hd a good rest.
I missed twice, then I rememberd to squeeze ther trigger gently. When I just though shoot, I was pull ing off the target
3rd shot right in the neck droped him.
Don't forget the fundemetels and the farther the target the more important that becomes.
...tj3006

A good trigger squeeze that doesn't torque the rifle will tighten groups more than most anything else. Not wrestling a factory 8 pound pull is part of that too.

Recoil sensitivity is different for everyone. What's comfortable or acceptable to one is intolerable to another. It's got nothing to do with being macho it's just the way people are...different.

It would seem that the people who regulate the large bore double rifles would one of the worst jobs in a gun factory.

It looks like the constant pounding of those large caliber rifles could cause permanent damage to your neck and shoulder muscles. I don't know how many shots they fire per day, but I don't see how they do it without doing some damage.

I think it is even possible, after a large number of shots, that it might even cause a stroke or brain hemmorage.

I have only one magnum, a model 27 S&W 357. My hunting rifles range from a 250-3000 to a 358 Win, and I managed to scare up a Chas. Daly LH 98 action that will be a 35 Whelen. Finn Aagaard hunted big bears in AK with a Whelen and Nosler Partitions, so I see no reason to acquire anything larger for hunting the lower 48. I don't really feel I need a Whelen, I just want one. I limit my shots to 200 yds, so I can get along just fine with the 358W. Finn wrote an article years ago about his testing of a Whelen and with a Speer 250 gr. got 18.5" of penetration at an impact velocity of 2450 fps and 20.5" of penetration with an impact velocity of 2172 fps. So speed isn't everything and penetration is critical on large and dangerous animals. And, the Speer is quite a bit softer than a Nosler Partition.

I also work sight in days every year at our club range. A few years ago I met a guy at church and we discovered we both hunted. He loved his 300 WM. "I can reach out when I have to." He had all the reloading gear but never got started. Shot only for sight in. He "didn't have the time to reload or practice."

I suggested he might want to start reloading and practicing, as eventually he would develope a flinch. He just smiled and said, "The day will come when you just can't reach far enough with your 30-06 or it won't have the energy for a clean kill way out there. Then you will understand." I told him to compare the ballistics of a 300WM vs 30-06 and see if the difference was worth the pain. He didn't.

Last year he showed up to sight in his new 270W, admitting he'd missed 2 mule deer in Montanna earlier in the year.

Every year I see more 4X-12X scopes and short mag or 06 case length magnum rifles. If the shake in the scope set at 12 doesn't discourage them, the recoil and muzzle blast does. They struggle to get a decent group at 100 yards. Victims of Madison Avenue advertising. The majority would have been better off with what a friend of mine used all his life for elk, a 300 Savage.

A Lead Sled & good hearing protection will go a very long way in deterring the development of flinches & bad shooting habits while doing range work with heavy loads/calibers. Practice field positions with a light kicker.

I did the metal work for a fella who wanted to build a .470 nitro double. We used a CZ 12 gage action and proofed the crap out of this thing and it didn't budge. The customer wanted to save some money by doing the stockwork and regulation himself so I gave my advise and off he went. As he made progress he would stop in so I could verify his results. I would lean into this double off the bench like it was a .223. I could shoot some 1" groups at 50 yards and get thru 10-12 rounds before my teeth felt like they were loose( no joke ). I can't imagine how those limies shot those beasts all day even off a standing rest I give them 25 rounds max.


I get a lot of guys who bring in brand new rifles in the box for muzzlebrakes. Most people would get used to the recoil after a summer at the range. I personally don't shoot any rifle that has a brake on it and the guy who makes my precision brakes said he wouldn't put one on his rifles. He makes thousands of them a year. I have customers who have medical reasons for their use and that seems reasonable but I usually try to talk people out of them ( kind of dumb when your a gunsmith ).


I definitly don't think the extra punch of a magnum is needed to kill any species of deer, but shooting elk bullets with a good B.C. at 3300 fps is a flat shootin' SOB.

Absolutely, positively, the most wicked recoiling sum-beetch I've ever pulled a trigger on.........including various versions of the 416's, 458's and 470's.

Never shot a 460 Wby., but the 378 is the champ so far; I have no reason nor desire to ever shoot one again.

MM

I'm far from the storied shooter that some here are, I've shot a few mags - the 257 wby mag, 7mm rem mag, 300 win mag, 300 RUM, 375 H&H, even the 338-375 Campfire. Some were a little brutal, others were really not much different than a hot 280 load. All of them are a little hard on a guy off of the bench after shooting more than a few rounds. Guess the cure for the problem is knowing your limitations, if heavy recoil isn't for you then don't shoot a magnum. If you can shoot one well then why not?

John,
I do the same when I take a magnum to the range. Several rifles and switch off just as you mentioned. If magnum load development is up and there is a brake option for that rifle it's always on unless there are a lot of other shooters at the range.
Fortunately all the load work for everything with a belt on it in my safe was done years ago and now shooting them is much more fun. Shooting one off of a tri pod and a leather bad means a short stool and a straight up position or at least that seems to help.
After reading all of the posts on this thread I'm trying ear plugs and muffs next time and the Past pad in the shooters box (old milk carton) gets pulled out.

The Best,
Dave

I find that by limiting the number of shots in a sitting I shoot a .375 magnum ok. Can't handle a .338 WinMag though. I shoot the .375 for everything because thats my only sporting rifle. I got a 338-06 for dad, and going down to that level of recoil would be nice. My rifle, and the rifle I specced for dad, both sit at about 10 pounds, which I consider perfect.

I used to use a 7x57 and wish I had it back. Being able to shoot a whole box at a sitting was nice. I know I don't need a magnum to kill the things I usually kill (although I've hunted bear and moose) but if you can shoot it, theres no such thing as too big.

As it stands I shoot birds in the head with the .375, so I must be doing something right.

"As it stands I shoot birds in the head with the .375, so I must be doing something right. "

LOL ...Funniest thing posted in this whole silly thread.

I'll give you a $20 bill to see you do that... twice,.. at 100 yds.

I'd like to see the .375 that can shoot 2 shots into the size of a birds head..... but maybe the big slugs have the "winged-it" advantage...?

So where do you reside, William Tell?

This is from a 416 Rem, shooting factory ammo at 100 yds, so I know it doesn't count for your 375 comment. Still, 5 out of 6 shots would have hit the bird in the head, and maybe even the sixth shot--depending on the size od the bird's head. The squares are 1" squares an the bottom group measures just over 1/4." Regardless, I wonder what this rifle will do when I find a good load for it? BTW, this is my THIRD 416 Rem that has shot sub 1/2" groups.

Well to date the three victims have been at 75 and 50 yards. Dunno if I could do it at 100--I would think twice about trying. But if you're ever in eastern Washington send me a PM and bring a couple rounds of Federal Premium and we can try it.

Nice target.....

Who put these rifles together? Very impressive for rounds with big game bullets, not match bullets like 22 & 308 match.

I guess if you consider close shots, big bullets and big-headed birds your statement is believable, it just seemed to match the rest of this threads "womanlike" bickering that it struck me funny last night.

Thanks for the laugh, and proof.

Allen

A couple more thoughts.. was a comment about shooting mags a lot to get used to them and thats correct. But at the same time not swapping to a 223. Not only is that wrong but swapping is often good. It can show a flinch that can develop unknown and unseen in recoil. We've developed flinches with 223s and dont' find it till we dry fire ball and dummy drills.

I've shot more than one larger than 30 cal boomer. For some reason the large rounds tend to be very accurate. I'm not sure why, its not the short fat ppc case syndrome for sure. But an inch at 100 is usually pretty easy. I've gone from shooting a 243 and been handed a 416 Rem and shot a deer in the head with it on the first shot(bad assumption on my part that teh gun was sighted in but we've all done stupid things)

Saddlesore-- as a side note, the wife is 110 and about 4/10 tall. She started CMP(DCM) with an AR many years ago and bad bullets whipped her at 600, she then bought an M14 and for years shot 180/185s at 600 and often had to crawl forward with her mat after a few shots. Of course she was glued to the mat and so had to move everythign forward, but I got a chuckle out of your comment.

Bottom line to me, there isnt' a bit of difference between most of the mags and a 22, the shot process is the same. Its what you'll accept physically and mentally.

Jeff

Mine is Sako factory and shoots a little over an inch.