Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters It;'s 1958: what's the all-around Western Rifle?

Absolutely, there isn't even a close second choice. And, it's still a great choice today.

I was alive and living in southwestern Montana in 1958, but only hunting some small game and varmints, as I couldn't legally hunt anything that required a license (upland birds, waterfowl and big game) until I turned 12 in 1964. But I was already a gun nut.

There weren't nearly as many Model 70's in hunter's hands as some of us would prefer to believe, mostly because they cost more than other rifles. One guy had a Model 70 .30-06 he bought the first year they came out, and it had a low-powered Bausch & Lomb variable in the adjustable B&L rings, a real hot outfit back in 1937, and still pretty hot in 1958.

But there were more Remington 721's and 722's among the hunters I knew than Model 70's. In eastern Montana these tended toward .257's and .270's, and in western Montana they were mostly .30-06's, along with a few .300's, both Savage and H&H. A few guys carried Savage 99's, including my hunting mentor, and my own first big game rifle was a 99 because of him, a .308.

There were a LOT of sporterized Springfields, and some that weren't even sporterized. In fact one of my childhood friends still hunts with an unmodified 03A3, and has killed all sorts of game with it, I believe all in the county where he was born and raised.

In second place among ex-military rifles was probably the Lee-Enfield .303 British. I can remember at least three .303's in our circle, including the No. 4 Mk. 1 that I inherited from my dad's only brother. It had the stock cut down and that was the extent of the sporterizing. He shot OK with irons. Many hardware stores had barrels full of .303's selling for $10 or $15 back then. One guy in our crowd had a 6x scope on his, but that's the only scoped SMLE I can remember. It was also the only 6x scope I can remember. Most people who used scopes had 2.5x or 4x Weavers.

I also only knew one guy who had a Mauser, originally a 7.65 but rechambered to .30-06. It's only modifications were the stock getting cut down, the barrel getting shortened, and a new front sight attached. Theoretically the bore would be too loose for .30 caliber bullets but he killed a pile of deer and elk with it. He bought whatever 180-grain bullets were cheapest and loaded them with the same charge of 4320. He also killed an elk every year.

Lever-action Winchesters were mostly used by ranchers and kids, who would later graduate to real rifles, mostly sporterized Springfields with scopes. My father had a Marlin 336 (labeled Western Field) .30-30 with a cheap Japanese 4x scope, because his eyes weren't good enough for irons, and I used it to take my first deer.

The .30-06 was considered a very powerful round, plenty for anything in Montana, even grizzlies. Yes, we still had a season on them then. In fact, you could use your deer "A" (buck) tag on a grizzly, but you then had to pay a $25 extra fee to the game department. I actually knew one guy who did this.

The 7mm Remington Magnum craze had started heating up across the country by the time I began big game hunting. A few of the real gun nuts bought them in Montana, and were firmly convinced that the Seven Em Em would flip an elk over at 1000 yards. Only one guy in our crowd had a Weatherby--a .300 of course--but he was originally from Back East so didn't really count, partly because he almost never got anything.

In 1958 I was in the same boat as JB, seems we are about the same age. Our family still lives in the same area now as back then, south central kansas. I am not sure when my dad and grandad started their treck to colorado for deer, elk and bear but I know it was before I was born (1952). They were still using the same equipment though when I finally got to go along (just for the ride) in about 1960. The equipment was one model 54 win in 30-06, one model 70 in 30-06, one 99 savage in 300 sav. and one m1 garrand.
(all of the above rifles are tucked away in my safe)

I wasn't born for another 3 years but got to know a lot of the guys in the late 60's when I did. Plus (luckily)travelled with my dad a lot prior to school age - he drove a school bus, farmed , had cattle, ran heavy equip. some so got to know some characters.

Very few Winchester/remington or Savage bolt actions - remember in Saskatchewan we were in the heart of depression in the 30's and that carried over.

Lots of 303 Lee enfields - you could buy them in 1969 for 8-12$ depending on shape from places like the Bay, Army & Navy and various mail order. 'Sportized' for (I think) around $24. A few surplus 6.5X55 , can't remember any 7X57. Lots of Savage 99, especially in 300 (still have two one that was Dad's). Quite a few 250/3000's. Not that many 30/30's , not a lot of used around and anyone that bought new bought a Savage , mostly.

Remember 2 Model 70's (both 270, who needed a 30/06?), one bought new with a steel tube 4X . His son (5 years older than me)used it and I remember it well. Remember the dad telling about getting some winter meat with it in the early 50's - early Dec. and a fresh snow he took the team and cutter and went hunting. Shot 11 or 13 deer that day and distributed them among family and neighbors. He bought the 270 new and was a deadly shot, but wasn't a loony. Prior to the 270 he had a 303 British and I remember him and others talking about how he would, at times if they were available and he was out of 303 British, shoot 303 SAVAGE through it (like 22 shorts except the caliber !!!). The other M70, 270, was owned by a fellow I never knew but my uncle (who was deadly with a 99 in 300) hunted with him and spoke about it . He had tremendous respect for the 'hitting power' and range it had

Must have been about that time that the 88 Winchester came out , which was popular here. Friends dad bought one in 243 the first year they were available, and embedded a new silver dollar in the stock. Wish I had a $ for every coyote /deer and antelope taken with it. He's long passed now but his granson owns it.

Its all good

Well I wasn�t born for another three years myself. But the earliest memory I have is I went to a PARTY WITH MY DAD AND WENT HOME WITH MY MOM�. Just kidding I�m the youngest of three.

What year was the 300 Win Mag introduced?

All the cartridges listed were probably popular, the 303 still works up here.

Spot on. Model 70 30-06 Springfield, end of story

1963,I think.

yep, last year for the "old" M70.

I can't speak for all of the West but central Idaho was pretty western in 1958,and even today it still pretty western by most standards. In this part of the country, in that time frame, the rifles of choice tended to be Savage 99's in 250/3000 and 300 Savage. Apparently most of the people around here didn't know they wouldn't kill elk because those two calibers were the favorites of most every outfitter and local hunter in this part of the country. There were still tons of them in use in this area up until the late 60's when that other calibers started making inroads into their dominance, surprisingly enough many of them were replaced by 243's of various manufacture and they kept right on killing elk with them too.

I had been out of high school a year in 1958 and of course knew about everything, I fell into the same trap as John B. and bought a Savage 99 in 308 because it was "more powerful", well like John B. - it took me a long time to get over the flinch that rifle gave me. It had to be the hardest kicking, most miserable rife I have ever shot, I don't know why it kicked so hard but I put up with it for about 8 years and finally traded it.

I doubt that our part of the country represents the West but there are a lot of Savage 99's in 250/3000 and 300 scattered around this part of the country although most of them are no longer used.

drover

Yup... first answer nailed it.

Mine, in 1958, would be the M70 featherweight with 4X Weaver...

Me too.

I was 16 in 1958 and I had a near new 30.06 in a Rem.721 with a 4X Weaver scope. I hunted the plateau country of Western Co.that year. I had two buck deer tags and two doe tags. I used 150gr. Silver Tips because I thought they looked cool, and because Jack O'connor recommended 150gr. bullets in the.06 for deer. It worker well enough, as I filled the four tags. And it would work today. I think the biggest change is not in guns or ammo but in optics.

The skull on the left is that of a 7 foot grizzly with a 25 caliber bullet hole from a
model 94 Winchester in 25-35. A 30-06 will do the job, heck, there was a guy in Wyoming that
killed a charging grizzly with one arrow.

A friend of mine went to a Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation banquet with an old-timer that used a Savage 99 in 300 Savage in a take down version.

After the dinner the MC asked how many of the people at the banquet had killed 5 or more elk. The old-timer leaned over to Greg and asked "does he mean at one time?"

Now that's funny.

I'm curious about that use of a deer tag. When we were kids my father made us chop wood and promised to take us bear hunting if we did it all summer. When we went bear hunting we didn't have a bear tag, but we could shoot a bear if he had a deer tag in our possesion. Grizzlies weren't excepted either, as I did shoot one with my 25-35.

He is on the wall, with no taxidermy, because we just stretched the hide on the floor of a barn and then salted it. Years later when I got married, I did get the hide tanned, it looks like this...

Shrapnel,

I have a copy of the "Montana Hunting & Fishing Information Bulletin--1965-66" that I picked up somewhere a few years ago. This was a little after I started hunting big game. According to it:

1) "Residents who hold any big game license are authorized to take one bear only, (regardless of species) during a license year."

2) There was no resident bear tag. The over-the counter licenses (tags) available were Deer A, Deer B and Elk. These each cost $1, but you had to buy a $2 bird license first.

3) Licenses also available through drawing were Antelope ($1), Moose ($25), Goat ($5) and Sheep ($15).

So apparently residents who had ANY big game could shoot either kind of bear. I was told that a deer tag could be used on a bear from the guys at the Powder Horn when I bought my first bird, deer and elk licenses there. But maybe they didn't even have to be tagged, as long as you had a big game license/tag of any sort. The bulletin is a little vague, but doesn't contain all of the regulations, such as season dates, bird limits, etc. Those were apparently printed separately each year. This may be why there isn't any mention of the $25 extra fee paid after killing a grizzly. I know that was in effect for quite a while. The guy I know who shot a grizzly back then (and tagged it with a deer tag) had to pay the $25 extra.

Apparently the only bear tag available was for non-residents, and cost $20. It was good only for black bears.

The black bear season then ran from spring until fall, all through the summer, but the grizzly season ran "concurrently with deer and elk seasons in the corresponding hunting districts."

According to the bulletin, black bears "are a trophy animal and its meat does not have to be used." I think that was changed in the 1980's or maybe early 90's?

Some other interesting stuff:

"There are no restrictions on caliber for rifles used in big game hunting." This is of course the way it is now, but I remember older hunters telling me there had been a restriction against .22-caliber rifles in years before.

"No license is required to hunt mountain lions, bobcats, lynx, wolves, coyotes, weasels, skunks, raccoons, red foxes, woodchucks, rabbits, hares, porcupines, prairie dogs, or ground squirrels (gophers)." There is no mention of tree squirrels. Probably they thought anybody who'd shoot a red or fox squirrel was nuts.

Where did you get your griz?

In the early '60's, I worked summer jobs in central Idaho. In 1962, I worked in Dixie and met Wally York, a hunting guide. He mentioned that the city guys seemed to like very powerful bolt action rifles (30-06 and better), while locals often used Savage 99's in 300 Savage and some liked lever action 30-30's. I re-visited Dixie in 2007 and met an old timer who used a Winchester 71 in 348 Win. Worked for him!

I guess the game has gotten tougher in the past 50 years.