Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters It;'s 1958: what's the all-around Western Rifle?

Winchester Model 70 in .300 H&H Magnum

-Bob F.

When I was a kid in the mid 50's the barber shops would be full of adults just setting in there BSing, sometimes with no intention of getting a haircut.
Often, the conversations would be about deer rifles, and you guessed it, the 30-06 vs 270 was the hot button argument starter.
But the 300 Savage 99 was also a highly valued whitetail and mule deer rifle, and some used them for elk.
There were a lot of low priced mausers to be converted into sporters, as well as Springfields you could get for about $20.

I would pick a Mauser sporter with a nice walnut "Bishop" aftermarket stock with cut checkering in 270 Winchester with a white line recoil pad and Lyman 3x scope.

Well, I was 10 years old in 1958, and I was looking forward to the time I turned 12, when Dad told me, I'd be able to have my own rifle. At that point in my life I had every ballistic chart committed to memory and all of the specifications of every rifle made. What I remember (vividly) is that the rifles I saw most being hunted with by the men I was around were Savage 99's in 300 Savage, quite a few Remington 721, mostly 30-06 & 270. Winchester 70's were there too, again mostly 30-06 & 270. I wound up with a Savage 99 in 308 myself largely due to influence of two great uncles who had Savage 99's in 300. That, and the fact I couldn't swing a Win 70 in 270, my Jack O'Connor inspired favorite. Anyway, those are what I saw the most of.

That would have been my pick as well, but, it was quite a few more years before I was hatched!!

I read about pre-'64 Model 70's from the time I bought my first GUN DIGEST, subscribed to OUTDOOR LIFE and joined the NRA in 1964. I didn't know anybody who owned one, however, for about 6 more years. I was surprised when I finally got to handle that one, because it wasn't all the different from most other bolt-action rifles.

It had a stock, a bolt handle and a barrel, and you loaded the rounds into the magazine by pressing them in there, just like on a Springfield or Mauser or Remington. The safety seemed a little clumsy compared to the one on my Remington 700's, but then that first Model 70 was a pre-war model.

Guess I was expected something like a Weatherby. Now, THAT was a different rifle....

Just once...right between the eyes. No ricochet, like some people think happens when you shoot a grizzly in the head.

Mule Deer,

I wasn't in Montana in 1958 but was there in '59, '60, '61 and then from 1964-1967. I was a forester with the US Forest Service on the Warland (now under Lake Koocanusa) and Fortine Districts of the Kootenai Nat. Forest.

Most of the fellows I hunted with at that time had .30-06, .308, 7mm Rem. Mag.,and one .30-40 Krag. The 30-06's were a Winchester Mod. 70 Featherweight and a Browning (Belgium). The .308 was a Sako Forester and the 7mm Rem. Mag. was a Husqvarna (mine).

The Husky was purchased at the Coast to Coast store in Whitefish in 1966 for $127. I paid it out over a 3 month period with overtime money I earned burning brush piles that fall. My salary at that time was $7000 per year.

I shot a black bear in the spring (June), of l967. The bear had been hanging around the Murphy Lake Ranger Station and couldn't be scared off from the area. There were young children at the ranger station site and the parents were worried about the bear hanging around. The District Ranger had peppered it with a load of #6 or #7 1/2 shot and it still came back.

I had a hunting license that had been purchased around the first of March. With the license one could take a black bear. The ranger's wife called one day and said the bear was back and she was worried about the kids playing outside. I told the ranger that I had a license and would be glad to go to the house and get my rifle and take the bear if he wanted me to. He said it was fine with him. There was no tag for the bear. After shooting and dressing the bear I took it to a game processor in Eureka, MT to have it cut up.

In about a week, maybe less, I drove up to the ranger station after working in the field all day and was met by the district ranger. He asked me to come into his office and when I entered I saw the local game warden. The warden asked me if I had shot a bear and I told him that I had. I'm sure he already knew this as I had shot it on the ranger station grounds with the district ranger's blessing. He then asked if I had a license. I told him that I did and he asked me when it was purchased, and if I had it before taking the bear. I showed the license and he could see that I had purchased it way before the bear was shot.

Since there was no tag to attach to the carcass I had simply taken the bear to the processor and left my name.

The warden said that I was supposed to leave my license tag number with the processor. I told the warden that I was not aware of that requirement, that it wasn't clear in the information on the license and the processor didn't ask me for the number. I asked the warden if it was my responsibility to give the processor the number or was it the processor's responsibility to ask me for it. His answer was,"I've already given the processor a tail chewing".

I got my "tail chewing" and a warning to be sure and leave the license number with the processor should I ever have the occasion to take another bear. I never had another occasion.

RLD

A deceased friend who was rather well employed for Montana in the 50's had a heavier gun than most as he hunted in what is now the Bob Marshall wilderness. His gun was a 338 OKH. I have held it and wish I had the foresight to take a picture of the barrel stamp.

Same '57 vintage Model 70 .300 H&H I use today....

shrapnel,

Thanks for the details. Nice shot!

I have seen some .357 magnum cast bullets not penetrate bear skulls, but all the .40+ revolver cartridges seem to do the job. Can't say I'm surprised that a .25-35 bullet would do it. I have a .25-35 Model 1894 made in 1898 and it (like all .25's) works a lot better than many people would think, even on supposedly "tough" stuff.

In fact my dad killed his firt deer in the Judith Mountains with a .25-20, and a frontal chest shot too....

OK4ster,

Thanks for the story. Sometimes I think the rules are just made up as they go along!

My old friend Chub Eastman (who used to work for Leupold and Nosler, and is now a gun writer) is about 10 years older than me, and gew up in the Polson area, where his family ran a fishing lodge on Lake Mary Ronan. One of Chub's jobs even as a kid was getting rid of problem black bears at the dump. His rifle was a .30-40 Krag, I believe straight military. Chub says it worked so well on bears that he has never hunted black bears again, though he still hunts all over the world for other things! I don't know what the laws were in Chub's day (and I don't think he does either) but apparently nobody said anything about it.

M70 Featherweight .270 WCF, M70 Standard .30/06, Remington 725
in .270 (or .280), 4X scope

Shrapnel has a wealth of knowledge and experience about hunting and shooting in general and in Montana in particular. I wish he would post more often. After all, there are not many people that have taken Montana grizzlies, legally.
(But I once worked with a woman from Bozeman that had educated two out of three of them that were in her horses one night, thinking they were black bears. Neat lady, too.

Royce

When I lived in central Montana in the late 1980s I got to know an old hunter who'd outfitted in the Bob Marshall for decades. When I got to know him he had just turned 80--and had horsepacked by himself into the Bob and killed a 6-point bull elk with the same rifle he'd used since his youth, a Savage 99 in .30-30. He'd also killed 5 grizzlies with it over the years.

I believe you, JB, one of my brother in law's used a 300 win mag in the early 60's to kill a brown bear in Alaska. The only reason he didnt take his 30-06 he told me was a friend told him he just had the have the 300 mag to kill a brown bear. I asked him what his guide had for backup.....30-06. An 06 or 300 mag packing a 220 grain bullet should be bad medicine for a grizzly.

300 WBY Tops in my book. 264 Westerner in 62.Tried the Rem 140 bonded core on a mulie this year. Expansion with no noticable weight loss. Saw no bulls to try them on.

A Winchester Model 70 featherweight in .270 Winchester with a 4X scope, probably a Weaver or Lyman, would have done nicely. If using factory ammo, most likely would have been 130 grain Winchester Silvertips. For handloads I'd have had a 50 lb drum of war surplus 4831 and a coffee can full of 130 grain Sierra bullets that would have sat on top of a 60 grain charge. A military-style Boyt leather sling would have allowed me to carry the rig slung over my red & black plaid Pendleton coat. That setup would still suit me just fine in all the spots I hunt in the southwest. The only caveat would be that I'd surely load a 150 grain Nosler Partition on the rare ocassion I drew an elk permit.

Neat thread.

Pretty good reading.

Win 70 in 300 H&H, or a Mod 54 in '06 just like the late Bill Foster and Company (or a Rem 721 in either):













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MtnHtr

This is another "Western Gun" from a long time resident family of West Yellowstone. I traded him out of this original model 1876 Winchester Deluxe in 40-60. When I finally got my moose permit, I decided to use this rifle.

My dad told me to never shoot a moose in the head, but that was the only shot I had, as he stood facing me for several minutes and wouldn't move. I figured that a frontal shot, between the eyes would kill him instantly, by hitting the brain. After All, I had shot a grizzly bear between the eyes with a 25-35 and he dropped dead in his tracks.

This time the bullet didn't penetrate the skull at all, it just hit the front of his skull and stayed under the hide, lodging just under the eye. About 5 more rounds finished him, the last between the ears from behind.

I later sold that rifle as I found it too anemic to use as a big game rifle, since then getting a 45-60, and a 45-75 in original model 1876's.