Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Fixed 4x's --- Leupold vs Schmidt Bender Vs. Zeiss

magnumdood: I thought when I hit my 50's, I'd have more time....these days I have LESS I'm not sure I have 3000-5000 repetitions of ANYTHING left in me. But I understand your point and it's well taken.

Arrogant, sanctimonious, pompous jerk; I wouldn�t trust you to test how many of my turds floated in a given week.




Never stopped him before; he doesn�t care. He thinks he knows more about rifles and scopes than anyone.



Everyone he argues with tells him the same thing.



You know all you need to know about him.

$3000

I don't really care what they show up with, as long as they are proficient with it. That was my point. My son hunted the same ranch with my old Marlin 336 30-30 once, and again with a 7-08. My nephew took 6 shots over 2 days to kill one. 26 shots in 4 days don't cut it.

The flip side to the mule deer hunt was some fellas from Pennsylvania who came out here hunting free-range aoudad. They were machinists by trade, and had thumbhole stocked 300WSM's with turrets they had made themselves (by the way they were competition shooters too). We eventually approached a big ram with one of the hunters while trying to figure how to get closer, ranged it, and told the guy it was 570 yards. His reply was "this is fine right here". We looked at him like he was crazy of course, as big aoudad rams weigh 300lbs or so. With little wind, we agreed to let him shoot. He dropped the ram with one shot. We stood there amazed.

Most of the Williansport boys hunt with there 1000 yard rifles.
We practice with our 300 WMs and S&Bs every year out to 700.
Pa is a big rifle state.Lots of guys stretch it out here.
dave

These Pa guys knew what they were doing for sure.

Like Bob, I seem to be (happily) stuck in the past. My first rifle was a Rem 660 in .308 which I fitted with a Weaver 3x scope. I'm not ashamed to admit that I still have that combination. The scope is anything but bright, and of course has no turrets, but it has never prevented me (or my youngest son, who now uses it) from taking all kinds of BC game. I know that almost any mid- to higher-end scope would give me a better sight picture, but I just can't bring myself to change the original set-up, and as I said, I don't think that it's ever hindered me.

I sight in as per JOC, for the longest distance without causing mid-range misses, and I've/we've taken game at ranges up to 300 yards, which under ordinary field conditions,is the limit of my ability.

They practice every year out to 700 and 1000 yds., so they know what they are doing ?
Not what I've seen. Big difference between making a 20-40 yd. shot in heavy cover on a running animal and making one at 500 yds. plus. Big difference between carrying a rifle that goes 6.5-7.5 lbs. all up and one that is very muzzle heavy and weighs 10.5-14 lbs. Particularly if you need to hike a few miles and climb a few 1000 ft.
I've done enough hunting and shooting to know that those that prepare for one, but not the other, are making a mistake. The bucks/bulls or whatever never seem to read my game plan.
I'm convinced that the trick is to know what to expect where you hunt and practice for that. Usually that means a mixture of both close and longer shots. I don't know about others, but the toughest shots I get are those which are up close, and in a hurry on a running animal. For that, a good 4X has it all. I can and have made shots well over 400 yds with one. Frankly, I find those much easier to make than the close range quick shots. That's why my rifles are designed to better handle those kinds of shots rather than the longer ones.
One more thing. Practice is fine. But trying to find ways to practice under pressure, say against stop watch, is much more realistic when it comes to real world hunting. That's where you learn that no matter how much you practice with the complicated stuff, the same effort put into the simplier setups pays off better.
The only exception I'm aware of would be things like really long shots. If you really need the capability to make 500-800 yd shots, then you probably should pack the extra gear. I, for one, have decided that only under the rarest circumstances would I consider anything over 400 yds for big game. Why ? I have yet to find anyone who can judge the tricky winds that blow in the mountains. Those that hunt things like Pronghorn or deer on flat land don't have that problem. While I've hunted in such places, I don't do it regularly so my choice are geared towards the simple and very flexible gear. E

I'm not one to normally say, "Have you been here or done that", but I doubt that you have ever been to Willimsport to watch what those guys/girls do at long range. It is a local obsession with the shooting crowd. There are a lot more than a few that will place 10 shots in a 5-7in circle at 1000 on a regular basis. I think the record is currently around 2.5in.

It's a big world out there and it obviously extends way beyond your little location and what you have seen.

Deleted

JG,

You really told someone who paid you $3000.00 to leave and not come back? My understanding of the guide business (A limited understanding I readily admit) is that a lot of your customer base is generated by word-of-mouth. Do you think that guy is going to recommend you to anyone else?

Really? I guess they should NOT practice?!?!?! Anyhow, your statement: "not what I've seen" is a logical fallacy.





Wow, that is some amazing wisdom. Of course, you jumped in and replied to a posting about someone taking LONG shots. I love herring. Red is my favorite.....




The herring is tasting better and better......





I'll even tell you the name of the logical fallacy you are using here: false dichotomy. You are very welcome. Oh, and feel free to do what a SMART hunter would do: prepare for BOTH.




Actually, at really close running game, lower power than 4x would be ideal. That might be why some guys hunting stuff that will eat you put things like the Nightforce 1-4x24 or the Leupold 1.5-5x20 or the S&B 1.1-4x24 on their rifles......





I like how you assume other people don't create stress while practicing.

FWIW, when I was in the corps, we had fixed 10x Leupold scopes. I guess they didn't hear from you, because they now have variable S&B scopes, so they are wasting their "simple" practice time on that "complicated stuff."

I was amazed by that as well. ERRORcus is actually arrogant enough to believe he invented stress training while performing all levels of firearm use, from loading, to malfunction clearance to actual shooting - accurately.

That's funny. I understood that the USMC used Unertl (Sp ?) 10X scopes. The Army uses the Leupold Mk.4 10X.
I'm not trying to say that the good folks back east don't know how to make long shots. I was saying, in so many words, that they assumed that they would doing that out here in the far west when they come out to hunt. The best rifle for use out here would be a heavy tactical rifle, wearing a fancy scope. One that they can not only rapidly adjust the focus, but the parallax, the magnification, the elevation and the windage etc.
With some conditioning, they will be able to carry it over ridges, down and up the other side of canyons, etc. When it comes time to make that all important shot, they will deploy the bipod on their 13 lb. wonder and amazed the local yokels who have only been doing this all of their lives with basic sporters and 4X scopes.
If they happen to hunt in a very few, wide open flat areas, for either deer or Pronghorn, they might pull it off. But for the bulk of western hunting, they aren't well equipped. As for conditioning, most of us learn that the more you insist on carrying, the less you will walk and the less you will be able to deal with whatever oportunities you get. E

I have literally known at least 50 Eastern individuals who have gone on Western hunts of all types. NONE have fit your stereotype
of carrying or wanting to carry a "13lb wonder." Now I'm sure it has happened, but I'm also sure it is the exception and not the norm. I think the only one assuming-or is it fabricating-anything is you.

He's fabricating, or in more common language, he's lying.

Oh! You're a conditioning expert too!? Please, tell us about your off-season conditioning program.

All I know is what we had. Fixed 10x. Now they use a variable S&B. Again, they must not have asked YOU how to train, because they are wasting their time with that complicated stuff when, according to you, they should ditch the variable and stick to training simple.....




Well, you might be quite the stud, but, considering that I did OK in the Madison, WI Ironman triathlon this year, I doubt if you should be giving me conditioning advice. I would put a lot of money on me being able to hump your ass into the grave in the mountains bub. A LOT of money. But, you don't know me from Adam, and I don't know you, so I won't be surprised when you act like nobody but you knows anything about conditioning either....

http://www.nasports.com/results/results.php

He might not, but I will. I commute by bike from Minnetonka in to Minneapolis 4-5 days a week all year. I biked over 4k miles last year, ran over 800 miles, completed several triathlons, including an Ironman (2.4 mile swim, 112 mile bike, and a marathon) and do light weights 3 times weekly. I also play hockey twice a week in the winter and once a week in the summer. I play in the Minnesota NHL alumni charity games as one of their goalies.