Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Home defense-- worst case senario

Prepare for the worst. You live in a city in an average sized house on an average lot. You get info that multiple thugs with guns are going to enter your property/house within seconds to harm you and your family. (This could in reality happen to any of us). This is a worst case scenario. Assuming you only had access to one of these guns with plenty of ammo. Assuming you knew all three weapon systems fairly well, which one would you choose and why?

1) Semi-auto carbine (like the AR15)

2) Shotgun (12ga with extended mag)

3) Handgun (whatever caliber)

I would choose an AR15 because of the higher ammo capacity, better at longer ranges, effectiveness of the hollow point .223 at close range, less penetration through walls, defeats body armor, faster follow up shots.

You have them in the right order. Make the handgun a XD-45 cal. It is hard to imagine a better combination than an M-4 with several mags. of TSX. Also add an EOTech.

a .223 AR would be my last choice of the 3, but I could use it with great effect if needed.

Terry

Shotgun, with handgun as backup. They are in your house, why would you worry about long range effectiveness?

If I hit them with the first few rounds, the dove loads will at least stun them until I hit the rest of the stash of buckshot in the mag. And that in the face, will defeat any body armor quickly.

Handgun to finish them, and if I have to for whatever reason, need some serious penetration, I generally keep 2-4 slugs on the side of the stock in the speedfeed tubes.

The AR woudl be my last choice, yet if loaded right it won't penetrate walls so bad, but with those types of expanding bullets, probably won't easily defeat armor either.

Even if I can't have the backup handgun(don't see why you should be limited and its small adn packable) I'd go for the do all shotgun every time in house situations.

Don't get me wrong, there is an AR here, but my house lot size is appx 98 acres and its for coyotes mainly.

Jeff

If you're in an "average size house on an average lot", there is no way "longer ranges" should be an issue.

The purpose of my handgun, in this situation, would be to get me to a shotgun. The carbine would do in a pinch, but would be my last choice in the house.

George

rost495 Totally agree on the shotgun 1st, handgun 2nd ,AR 3rd .all three have there place but in a home invasion situation I'll take the pump or auto shotgun in a heartbeat and the other 2 will be for backup

I am best able to make hits with the carbine. Shotgun and handgun are distant seconds.

I am relatively unconcerned with the difference in terminal effect between a rifle and a shotgun. I can fire the carbine faster, and more accurately. It is shorter, lighter and more accurate. I spend a LOT more time with a carbine--in fact the only shotgun I own has two barrels and fancy wood.

I also don't [bleep] around with birdshot. I'm not going to be shooting someone unless the situation calls for lethal force. Legally there is no distinction between a cloud of #8 and a controlled pair of Hornady T2, so I prefer to use what will end the ability of the assailant to pose a threat.

Multiple thugs I know I'm going to be in a shootout with? Then the Garand gets the nod with ball ammo. It will penetrate vests, stop thugs strung out on drugs, has no range issues, and with a bandoleer around my shoulder I'll have plenty of ammo. The only downside is ball ammo will readily go through walls, but if I know they are coming I'll get the family in the safest room, arm them with the 9mm carbine, and leave the Dobey with them.

Second choice would be the shotgun, loaded with Fed personal defense ammo. I would hope that "eight" is enough with the shotgun.

I'd never use an AR in a self defense situation. It has questionable vest penetration and perps strung out on drugs can soak up a lot of 223 bullets before going down. To me, the ARs biggest value is it's visual effect on potential ne'er do wells. While a Garand or a shotgun is a much more formidable weapon, potential perps--often being firearms stupid--fear the AR becasue of how it looks.

Excellent Reasoning.

I am best with a Shotgun and it is an excellent tool. So that Is where I would turn.

BMT

Phil your scenario has a lot of holes in it. Even in states with the Castle Doctrine and No Retreat laws, you're going to be questioned heavily about why you just didn't get the he// out of there. I mean, my AR's are locked in the safe. I don't know if I could access them any quicker than I could just get the wife and kids out the back door and over the fence out of harm's way. Several people criticized Randy Weaver (and I'm not dissing either them or Randy Weaver himself-just making mention) for not getting his family out of the way and shooting it out himself. I mean, are you talking a Rodney King or Katrina scenario or something even worse, such as TEOTWAWKI scenario or just some mafia folks coming after you because you punked Tony? In the first two scenarios, relatively proactive self-defense with your AR may be legally justified and the best route to take since there may be nowhere to run. In the third scenario, grabbing a pistol and booking it across the fence may be the better part of valor if you are outnumbered and your family is with you. I guess if you were surrounded by crazed methed-out bikers from hell then there would be no good way to retreat. I'd grab my AR if there was time and if there was not, I'd grab my .45 auto. I only have one 12 gauge and it's an old Marlin heirloom not really fit for any sort of duty save the most dire emergency with nothing else available. If I had one of those low-recoil, fully-auto 12 gauges with the exploding projectiles, I'd use it. In the real world it would be AR or .45 and in the really real world probably the 45 would be all I could get to quickly enough.

why would a group of thugs enter the house of someone armed with a suppressed Stemple 76/45 subgun? That's what they'd encounter if they broke into my house. What can I say, I like being able to hear after the 1st shot is fired.

An AR15 fired in a house is damn loud, so is a shotgun and pistol for that matter.

Ryan

First Merry Christmas!!

I know you shoot a lot with the carbine AR. I lived with an AR in competition since appx 89 to 03. I'm fairly familiar with it too.

That being said we are both liable for the bullets and where they end up. Innocent folks and all, both inside and outside.

Now I'll agree with you if you have only a double barrel, though personally i'd deal with a coach gun too, but happen to keep a 590 by the bed. You can buy a defense shotgun though. Thats why I ahve a 590. Its a dedicated bed gun. I'm not tempted to take it away etc.. hunt with it and so on. It has ONE use that I hope it never gets used for.

As to your comments on bird shot, if you don't realize how deadly birdshot is in a house you are only assuming and not actually thinking. That round of bird shot in house distances is like a fragged slug... I guarantee it'll kill you dead dead DEAD. And if the first shot doesnt' to the body armor, the second to the head will. It has nothing to do with legality. It has to do with innocent folks safety. I back that up with low recoil 00 buck, but both will end the situation, and 00 buck won't penetrate a vest either. Folks are just plain ignorant as to how deadly bird shot is at close range.

Again, not a flame or anything negative intended, just chaps me when folks ignore safe lethal force.

Now as Blaine said get all the family in the bedroom... well for this scenario yes, but thats a really low percentage reality that you'll know whats going to happen and how.... generally you are sound asleep and woken.. and have to grab what you have. If I KNEW they were foe and about to come in that door, theyd' all die before they ever got to the door in the yard.

Comment wise on folks keeping guns locked, yes we do keep most in the safe, but there is always a 45, a shotgun and some kind of AR and varmint rifle in the house loaded and ready to go. I ain't risking my life on a pistol or havign to unlock something.

Jeff

Bird shot at close range will knock a hole through an assailant that you can see daylight through. It's nice because it's very lethal but doesn't have over penetration problems. This is a big concern if you have loved ones in the house with you not to mention your neighbors. Another big advantage to using birdshot is it kills up close and wounds at a distance. This could be very helpful if you ever have to explain yourself in a court room.

BERNELLI S90 riot gun loaded with #4 buck, 10 shot mag, aim for necks & faces.

Shotgun..loaded with small diameter buck. Birdshot would do fine as well. pistol or carbine would also work well.

Your tactics are likely more important than your weapon (within reason anyway) Keep to the basics, secure area to your 6, cover if you have it,concelment if you don't, use elvation to put yourself out of their kill zone, use natural funnels to keep the perps in kill zones etc.

Every time I see a movie where the homeowner takes his weapon and goes to look for the bad guys I laugh.. giving every advantage to the intruder.

Frankly once you have a bunch of folks who have body armor and know how to enter a building your probably screwed.. best you can do is do some damage and slow the situation down.

If I'm gonna use lethal force, its gonna be as lethal as its gotta be. 75gr OTMs are like that. I met a Marine at Gunsite who had actually shot people in a house with birdshot. He accidentally loaded that instead of buck. He was mad because a guy with an M16 had to finish what he started and he didn't get any kills that tour with a shotgun. Up close I've seen what birdshot can do. But in a 7 meter hallway? I'll pass.

5.56 straight up goes through body armor. Hell I've seen Winchester 127s from a Glock 19 go through a IIA vest. Same with slugs from a 12.

Overpenetration is a concern. But I have always been more concerned with underpenetration. This goes back to SA Patrick Ureys famous comment about the cost of underpenetration. The fact is, frome where I am holed up in my room, I can dominate the main hallway in my house. At the end of that hallway is a solid brick fireplace. I keep a carbine and three mags by my dresser, and theres not prize for conserving ammunition.

But the main thing is being mean when it comes to it, eh?

Rost, I don't mean to be argumentative in the least, but in a real firefight, you'd be lucky to kill one guy before they all went to cover. Assuming you had the complete element of surprise, which you probably wouldn't have as these are people sneaking up on a house and watching for signs of wakefulness, you might kill one outright and perhaps wound another in flight, if you were really good. That would leave four armed men if it was a half-dozen after you in the first place. Killing six guys by yourself is Medal of Honor stuff or at least Bronze Star. Almost certainly the four survivors would kill you unless your house was fortified and already locked down and your family experienced marksmen that didn't freeze up at the first sight of blood or loud bangs.



I used to keep a lot of guns laying around, but I've got two little kids. Besides, the idea of a gun safe is to keep them secure when you are gone. I'm out of the house a lot and my safe is in the basement. I don't like having to secure three or four guns every time I leave. A .45 and my wife's .357 are enough to keep track of.

Everyone is entitled to there opinion so here's mine.

I can choose a benelli M2 Tactical with 18" barrel and ghost ring sights but its not my first choice regardless of shot used.

I have a Sig 228 9MM laying there as well but it's for backup.

So the first thing I'll grab is an AR-15. Why? The ammo is lethal at any range in my house yet will not shoot the neighbor in his bed. It has a light mounted to it, has a very short overall length, an Aimpoint mounted that is very fast and accurate in the dark and I have used it enough that it is natural to me.

If I'm unfortunate to ever have to shoot someone I don't want to wound them so they can sue me later. A shotgun has it's place but it's not as versatile as an AR-15. Just my opinion but it'll keep me alive.

Has anyone here done any testing to see for themselves what the actual effect of their ammo of choice is after it passes through a couple sheets of drywall?? Might be quite an enlightening test....