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I do not know the pressures, but I can say I feel very comfortable shooting at the current levels. The accuracy is excellent, the primers look great and the bolt has no stiffness to it.
In my 300 Saum with a 168 TTSX and 63 gr IMR4350 I was seeing a velocity of 3050 fps with a stiff bolt & flat primers. I did not feel comfortable with that load. In the same gun, same day with 64gr RL17 there were no sign of pressure with a velocity of 3245 fps, I was amazed.
I heading out right now to retest, give me a few hours to post results. With any luck I will be able to back up results.
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Back to the hornady light mag the stuff I tried in my 7-08 was running at advertised velocities. It was 140 grain hornady at over 3000 fps. 22" barrel
I'm not sold on R17 or other powders being magic but I can still believe in improvements. 4350 was about the slowest powder available a long time ago and the weatherby cartridges and other similar ratio cartridges like the 25-06 came into their own when 4831 and the other slow powders came into being.
Last edited by Partagas; 01/03/09.
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Is RL-17 a temperature insensitive powder?
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Is RL-17 a temperature insensitive powder? They claim it is, but I have not been able to find any reports of independent testing and verification of it yet. If it truly has a different pressure curve and give the increased velocity without undue pressure, plus being temperature insensitive they will have a real winner on their hands. The fact a Swiss outfit makes it give me hope that the QC and consistency will be good. I am waiting to hear first hand reports back on this powder.
..pick..
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Update:
I went out again today and was getting similar results...then I went to double check everything and my chrony was NOT completely flat. It was off about a 1/16 of inch, this little change dropped velocities about 100 fps.
So here are the numbers I shot today and I feel they are fairly accurate.
.300 Saum
168 TTSX Fed 215 62 gr RL17 = 3045 fps 63 gr RL17 = 3110 fps 64 gr RL17 = 3160 fps
62 gr IMR4350 = 2900 fps (max load in my rifle)
180 Partition Fed 215 62 gr RL17 = 3040 fps 63 gr RL17 = 3100 fps
7mm Saum
160 Partition Fed 215 56.5 gr RL17 = 2980 fps
These were the only loads I had left after I discovered the error. I do not feel any of these loads were at max. I feel very confident that I can get even more velocity out of the RL17.
I also did some milk jug tests with the TTSX, Partition, Accubond and Balistic Tip. I will post that later.
And yes RL17 is supposed in me temp insensitive.
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As Partagas points out, the powders in Hornady's Light Magnum loads and RCM cartriges produce higher velocities than those currently available to handloaders. At some point in time they may become available to us.
Available or not, you're not going to be stuff enough into the case to replicate the load. For example, last time I checked, a 180 30-06 Federal Fusion load uses 56 grains of a ball powder for ~2740. A 180 308 Win Federal HE uses 56 grains of a ball powder for ~2740. Essentially, Federal is stuffing a 30-06 size load in a 308 case. I doubt the powder is terribly special (there is certainly nothing magical about the energy density), but the loading technique is pretty damn tough to duplicate. Edited to add: At least for the 308 Win, there are commonly available powders that will more or less duplicate the velocity of the HE loads with pressures around 60K (the HE loads are about 54K).
Last edited by Thegman; 01/03/09.
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1fstdsl
Thanks for posting the information. I have been working with my Ruger 300 Saum trying to improve on the velocity with 180 grain bullets. Here is my previous data and what I got with reloader 17 today. Ruger 300 Saum 22 inch barrel Powder Weight Bullet& Wt Primer Vel FPS Temp F VV N560 65 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2734 29 - 46 VV N560 65 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2728 29 - 46 VV N560 66 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2781 29 - 46 VV N560 66 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2791 29 - 46 VV N560 67 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2841 29 - 46 VV N560 67 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2836 29 - 46 IMR 7828 64 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2719 29 - 46 IMR 7828 64 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2708 29 - 46 IMR 7828 65 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2756 29 - 46 IMR 7828 65 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2762 29 - 46 IMR 7828 66 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2824 29 - 46 IMR 7828 66 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2803 29 - 46 IMR 7828 67 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2829 29 - 46 IMR 7828 67 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2845 29 - 46 IMR 7828 68 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2889 29 - 46 IMR 7828 68 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2901 29 - 46 Hunter 59 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2597 29 - 46 Hunter 59 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2583 29 - 46 Hunter 60 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2605 29 - 46 Hunter 60 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2619 29 - 46 Hunter 61 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2695 29 - 46 Hunter 61 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2714 29 - 46 Hunter 62 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2788 29 - 46 Hunter 62 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2764 29 - 46 Hunter 63 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2816 29 - 46 Hunter 63 gr Hornady 180 gr Sp WWLRM 2821 29 - 46 H414 57.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2592 29 - 46 H414 57.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2581 29 - 46 H414 58.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2600 29 - 46 H414 58.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2606 29 - 46 H414 59.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2713 29 - 46 H414 59.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2721 29 - 46 H414 60.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2757 29 - 46 H414 60,5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2773 29 - 46 H414 61,5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2798 29 - 46 H414 61.5 gr Rem 180 GrSp WWLRM 2809 29 - 46 RL 17 58 FED 215 2788 68 RL 17 58 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2775 68 RL 17 59 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2834 68 RL 17 59 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2817 68 RL 17 60 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2884 68 RL 17 60 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2887 68 RL 17 61 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2935 68 RL 17 61 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2954 68 RL 17 62 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2988 68 RL 17 62 Hornady 180 gr Sp FED 215 2979 68
With Reloader 17 I gained 100 FPS from closest load with no pressure signs. Now just need to play with seatig depth for best accuracy.
Ronald
A gun in the hand is worth more than the entire police force on the phone.
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Good inputs folks. Interesting stuff. Looking forward to stretching my loads in the 338-06 with RL-17 to see what it will do.
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Nice pics! your new results seem more in line with what I have read about the new powder,another + is your getting good accuracy with the added velocity,thanks for taking the time to show us your results,looks like Alliant may have another great option,I will have to try some soon!
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I can buy those numbers - which are still pretty dang impressive for a 7mm/300 shortie. Plus good shooting!
Thanks for taking the time to post. I also have to give you big kudos for telling it straight with the chrono issues.
Thanks for the results and please keep us informed of further load development.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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That new data also matches my earlier post re quickload. Remember that when I asked it what the fastest possible speed might be it said 3154. So I guess that would make re 17 one of the best "fast" powders for the cartridge. It doesn't make it a miracle powder but it does confirm it's one of the best out there for performance.
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1fstdsl, When you say the Chrony was not "flat" did you mean that it wasn't level or that it wasn't open all the way? Not being fully opened would shorten the sensor spacings and I know that will skew the numbers. I've never given much thought about a chronograph being perfectly level, however. I just always line it up so that I,m shooting targets from the bench and speed testing at the same time. Our range seems like level ground but could be part of a degree out of level. Does perfect level make a difference?
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Those numbers still look a bit high, however I am curious enough that I am going to go take a drive to Cabellas in Reno and pick up a pound and see what my 300 wsm can do. I have about a half a box of 165 gr nosler ballistic tips on hand, also have three boxes of Barnes 168 gr xlc's. With 70 gr of IMR 4831 I am getting 3115 fps with the xlc bullets, only issue that I have is that I may have to wait for it to warm up, almost all of my load testing is done with a temperature of at least 60 degrees, have not seen that since early November.
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1f - looking back over your post, you mentioned milk jug tests - what did you find? I'm curious how the Partition faired. I shoot 63 gr AA 4350 under a 180 Partition for 2925 in my 24" SAUM. It is my elk load.
Another question - does either of your two SAUM's leave ejector marks in any of your cases? My 7 does at the mildest loads possible but nice rounded primers, and next to no case head expansion. In fact, its hard to measure any case head expansion.
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1f - looking back over your post, you mentioned milk jug tests - what did you find? I'm curious how the Partition faired. I shoot 63 gr AA 4350 under a 180 Partition for 2925 in my 24" SAUM. It is my elk load.
Another question - does either of your two SAUM's leave ejector marks in any of your cases? My 7 does at the mildest loads possible but nice rounded primers, and next to no case head expansion. In fact, its hard to measure any case head expansion.
Milk jug test: 7mm 140 gr BT Velocity = 3200 fps 86.5 gr, .50 dia, 62% retention 7mm 160 Partition Velocity = 2950 fps 106.3 gr, .53 dia, 66% retention .30 cal 180 Partition Velocity = 3000 fps 122.3 gr, .56 dia, 68% retention .30 cal 180 Accubond Velocity = 3000 fps 115.5 gr, .59 dia, 64% retention .30 cal 168 TTSX Velocity = 3150 fps 118.6 gr, .40 dia, 71% retention (lost all 4 petals) I was getting injectors marks with IMR4350, but I had those loads were max in my rifle. I am not getting injector marks with RL17 yet and the velocities are greater than the IMR4350. Like I said previously, I know I can get even more velocity out of the RL17. I think 3200+ fps is going to be no problem with the 168 TTSX with the .300 SAUM.
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..........Another question - does either of your two SAUM's leave ejector marks in any of your cases? My 7 does at the mildest loads possible but nice rounded primers, and next to no case head expansion. In fact, its hard to measure any case head expansion.
What do you mean by "ejector marks"? According to some pressure or maximum loads cannot be measured by case head expansion! They argue that the chronograph measures pressure.
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1fstdsl, When you say the Chrony was not "flat" did you mean that it wasn't level or that it wasn't open all the way? Not being fully opened would shorten the sensor spacings and I know that will skew the numbers. I've never given much thought about a chronograph being perfectly level, however. I just always line it up so that I,m shooting targets from the bench and speed testing at the same time. Our range seems like level ground but could be part of a degree out of level. Does perfect level make a difference? I did not have the chrony fully opened. Which would probably explain why I would get frustrated sometimes when my velocities would flucuate by 100 fps.
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Sav - Ejector marks are marks left on the case head from the ejector plunger. Marks are also left by the bolt face due to sticky extraction. Both classic signs of high pressure - or something else in my case. I don't believe I'm not anywhere near max charge as velocities are 200 ft/sec less velocity acheivable at max pressure. For example, I'm at 2750 with 154 Hornady using 54-55 gr of H4350. Max load is handy to 57 grains and 2900 ft/sec with a 22" barrel. I'm running a 24" barrel.
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I was able to get a hold of some RL17 and did some testing with my 7mm Saum and .300 Saum New Years day, I must say I am very pleased.
The loads I like for the 7mm are:
140 TTSX 60gr RL17 Fed 215 Avg Velocity = 3325 fps
160 Partition 56.5gr RL17 Fed 215 Avg Velocity = 3075 fps
.300 Saum
168 TTSX 64gr RL17 Fed 215 Avg Velocity = 3245 fps
180 Partition 62gr RL17 Avg Velocity = 3150 fps
Both rifles were 24" barrels and accuracy was under 1/2 inch @ 100yds for all loads.
I was most pleased with the 168 TTSX load. I was able to gain 245 fps over my previous load of 62 gr of IMR4350. I was only able to get 3000 fps with that load before seeing pressure signs.
Also, I never saw any pressure signs with any of the RL17 loads. So I maybe able to squeeze a little more out of it, but I think I am near max though. I did several loads in 1 gr increments and I never flattened a primer or had a stiff bolt. Very impressive. ...............Very intersting #`s there!...I also plan on using some new Rel 17 in my shorty 16.5" tubed 300 WSM compact Frontier and for my 375 Ruger Alaskan. Without Rel 17, I have received some very good #`s from the Frontier and happy with them. Over 2900 w/ a 180 grainer, a little over 3100 from a 150 and 2800 from a 200 grainer. I wonder what the Rel 17 will do!
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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