Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Seattle Police Kill German History Buff

I'd really like to know that too!

It's easy...you Id yourself as LE and shout "you are restrained"

Gentlemen,

The local report says nothing about this specific guy being observed by the cops, or any one else, firing. The report says someone was firing into the air.

Was the rifle shouldered? aimed? held at port arms? the presence of a rifle and a bayonet is insufficient to me to justify shooting unless it was aimed at the cops.

Watch what you ask for. Giving the police the power to shoot anyone holding a firearm puts all of us on the menu.

Bayonet affixed to rifle. Shot already fired in the area, 911 call identifies rifle as one of the weapons. Dead guy has rifle, bayonet attached, at less than 30 feet from you; rifle likely loaded given the circumstances (i.e. 911 call, etc.), and refuses to drop the rifle.

How, exactly, do you restrain him?

taser, shoot him in the leg, bean bags in a shotgun, mace.

Shoot him in the leg = huge civil lawsuit. Not a good idea.
Taser? Good idea. Unless the rifle is pointed at you (which it well could have been).
Bean bags in the shotgun? Assuming you have one.
Mace? See taser solution.

Not saying it ain't possible, but you're assuming a LOT when you think that it's possible, and you're also assuming that such options were viable.

Change the scenario slightly: the rifle is now pointed at you and the suspect takes a step in your direction. Restrain them now.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What if you don't have those things on your person, Taser, bean bag round?

You don't shoot an armed person in the leg, you just end up with a really pissed off armed person, who'll damn sure shoot back now. You could possibly end up with a barracaded subject or a hostage situation.

They sent four patrol officers to the call reference to shots fired, not a fully armed SWAT team, with a variety of things such as bean bag rounds or PC friendly munitions.

They went to check out the disturbance and was confronted with a threatening armed subject.

Couldn't agree more VAminrod, I think Walter only THINKS he's friends with 20+ cops if that is his opinion. Most cops I know prefer to go home at night.

No. They don't always work even if the darts contact skin.



No. Now he's just pissed and is going to shoot back.



No. IF you have one, then you have to hit him correctly. You miss, he shoots.



No. Police don't use mace anymore, they use pepper spray. Some people aren't even mildly bothered by it.


Any other useless solutions?

Well I guess that a fairly easy stance so long as your not the one out there actually doing the restraining.

Curious, when you say "we never agree on this" do you mean it is 20+ cops telling you you are nuts?

You claim to have 20+ police friends. I'm calling BS. No one has that many police friends unless they pretty much are around the CJ system all the time. Anyone around the CJ system all the time would not have written what you did above.

Guys, we're not going to agree on this, and you will not change my mind.

I don't think more people get shot by cops than when I was young because more people act dumb, I think its becasue we allow shootings by uniformed officers that would not have been allowed years ago.

BTW, where I live, the cops carry the bean bag shotguns in their cars specifically to disarm probable threats in a non-leathal manner. The Chief demands that they exhaust all avenues before discharging their primary weapon, if they can.

Knowing there were shots fired may or may not have changed the scenario. But one cops with a non-lethal shotgun and one with the real thing probably would have delivered a different result when they opened the door..

I command a 160+ reserve unit with roughly 15% of the members uniformed police officers. The local chief is a personal frend, and I "hang out" with three cops, and am related by marrage to two, and my brother is one.

Not that that has anything at all to do with use of lethal force vs capture and restraint.

How are old are you, because at age 49 I strongly disagree with that statement.

I think today you have way more mentally ill people out on the streets rather in hospitals like it used to be, more younger people with more guns, more crime, more gang banging..I couldn't disagree more.



I bet you would be hard pressed to find incidents where beanbags are used on a armed suspect pointing a weapon at officers.

I'm 49, will be 50 in three weeks.

You are right, how exactly do you use the ignore function. I've been looking but can't see the button.

The Real Hawkpiss needs to be turned off, Along with hisw bed queen Walter.

Hope you don't make it! Get terribly sick and Die, along with your buddy hawkpiss....

Whoa, wtf?

It sounds as if the chief in Walla Walla or one of the Tri-Cities is worried more about PC/media outcome. Then the safety of his officers.

Good officers have been killed trying to play the force continuum, to stay within Dept. policy, when deadly force would of saved their lives.

Hitnrun, before I give up on you entirely, did you happen to read my response to your post in the Model 29 thread?