Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Deadly force on BART

Lets say a female officer weighing in at 100 lbs has a subject cuffed. Lets say it's a man weighing in excess of 200 lbs and he decides he's done cooperating and decides he's going to make his bones by kicking this little chick's azz. Would she be justified in tazing him, assuming she didn't have 10 yrs experience in ju jitsu?

I'd have to ask how a 100lb female cuffed a 200lb bad ass but is incapable of getting out of the way of his flailing feet.

Ain't saying tazers don't have their place - just that it would seem to me that they are becoming a crutch for some officers/departments.

I guess that's what I was getting at with the "different tools" comment. I just didn't want to get into specifics as I've already been held accountable locally for a reference almost exactly like yours.

George

Sometimes guys don't realize that things are bad until the last 'cuff snaps shut. They realize things are real at that point. I've had numerous guys start to fight when the realized they were going for the ride.

George

I'm tempted to call that a cop out.

teal,

Many times people are nice and cooperative until they realize they are going to jail. Any cop who's been on the street long enough has dealt with people just like that.

I understand that, just don't see how (in his particular instance) how an officer couldn't get away from someone kicking at them.

What happens when you shut off the tazer and the guy goes ballistic again? You can't let it run till you get him in a cell.

Somewhere there has to be some SOP for a guy (seeing as we have had LEO for hundreds of years before tazers) who won't cooperate.

Yep, 10 pages was a very safe over................

Oh, no problem.

the female cop in my example is real and her bacon was saved by several motorists driving by. It was pre taser era and she didnt have the strength or skills to save her own azz. Seems most people don't hate cops after all or they would have just stepped back and watched the azz kicking.

I guess I don't know what you want to hear. A Taser use is just another use of force. Whether it is legal or not is dependent on the situation. The fact is, most likely it's going to be ruled legal. If a guy is on his stomach, compliant, with a bunch of cops standing around him and he gets lit and the cops start laughing, I'm betting he gets charged. If there are two cops and the guy is on his stomach in handcuffs and is still trying to get up to fight, it's most likely going to be ruled as justified.

Again, these are all just "what ifs".

I, personally, would not utilize a Taser on a subject in handcuffs. I wouldn't use it regardless of where they were if the hooks were on. Again, that's me and my skill set. I can't, and won't, make that decision for everybody everywhere.

George

I worked the bar scene long enough to see it in person several times - NEVER, not ONCE was a tazer involved. Including when a certain D1 Big 10 defensive linemen got froggy.

Just saying that in this instance with 3 officers there how they would need to use a tazer on the guy is beyond me - no one is superman and if 3 of your officers can't subdue a person who appears to be of average build - without a tazer, you might want to re-evaluate their training regimine some.

I been forcibly subdued by the best (Seals in a training exercise where it was my specific job to resist as much as possible - best damned 8 hours of my hitch - lots of fun that night being an indig rable rouser - 50 cals, helos, mortar sims, full auto fire, gas and flash bang grenades, rocks being tossed) and no tazer was used so I find it hard to see where it should have been in this particular situation.

I am sure there will be a trial and everyone will get their day - but were I a juror I would have a damned hard time discounting the video I watched.

The tazer runs for 5 seconds but can be shut off before that. It can also be re-engaged.

You hang on for dear life and wait for backup.

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I post on other threads on this site also.

If you wouldn't say stupid things, that you know nothing about, such as why LEO's do this or that. I wouldn't respond, to the thread. I am not going to sit here, and let you put out things that are so incorrect, that it's silly. Such as some LEO's get a woody, because they can shoot someone.

I don't care if you don't like the police, i don't like every LEO or organization that i am familiar with either. I resigned from one, that i felt the admin. was wrong in how it treated it's employee's and the citizens within the community.

I don't care if your uncle rode a moped in Maryland. You yourselve have never been involved in the day to day activity of an LE organization. All i am suggesting is that you go out and truly experience what goes on in the streets and how things are handled.

*** The officer in this situation made a very grave mistake, i don't believe it was intentional. This just like all the people in the US who make mistakes with automobiles and people are killed. If the courts decide that this officer, should be tried then so be it.

I honestly can't begin to explain why they couldn't finish the job without the taser in this instance.

I still operate without a Taser and, Chief willing, always will. I also operated solo for a long time, with backup at least 25 minutes away if it came at all.

SOP is easy: use the amount of force that is reasonable and necessary to gain compliance. Stuff the guy in the rear of the cruiser and drive to CJ. If the guy fights after he's in 'cuffs then you do what you need to secure him. If he wants to kick at the cruiser it can always be fixed. If you hit the brakes while they're laying down, they fall into the space between the seat and cage. They don't accomoplish much there.

George

We'll disagree on this one.

EVERY time I pull the trigger, it's intentional. Can't fathom it being otherwise.

My respect for you has increased by one notch. That puts you at notch number one.

I want to know how y'all are watching the video. I get nothing but an error.

George

Well, you're being a condescending bastid today, aren'tcha?