Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "Seating Bullets Straightly."

Hi Folks:

Happy 2009!

I'd like to thank John Barsness again for his latest exclusive column for the Campfire, "Seating Bullets Straightly." This is the place to ask John questions about the column.

For those who have not received it via email, here's a link to sign up:

Sign up for John Barsness's Exclusive Monthly Column

And here's a link to this month's column:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/January_2009.html

Here's December's:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/December_2008.html

Here's November's:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/November_2008.html

And here's October's:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/October_2008.html

Don't forget to check out John's (and Eileen's ) other stuff at http://www.riflesandrecipes.com. Eileen's fabulous cookbooks are a staple in our house! I highly recommend them.

Thanks again, John, and Happy New Year to all!

John,

Have you found that the "floating" type expander ball (Lee Dies) to be more forgiving in the area regarding your article on seating bullets straightly?

It would seem the floating expander ball would naturally center itself.

Thanks.

John,

I haven't gotten through the first page and I've already found something neat. Your pass thrown by a ten year old quarterback analogy for precession draws a great picture of the effect. I'll be using it in future handloading conversations, with attribution of course.

mathman

ought6,

A floating expander ball does help, but I suspect the big problem (at least most of the time) is the case being pulled a little sideways out of the die.

Some dies can even be "adjusted" to float the expander ball. I do this all the time with Redding and RCBS dies, by just backing off the expander stem a little, leaving it loose in the threads.

mathman,

Thanks! That's part of the job, but it's always good to hear when I'm getting it right....

John,

I recall that you mark the die boxes "good" if the die sizes cases straight, less than .002" runout. I've taken to writing "good" around the outside edge of proven shellholders as well. If the upper and lower surfaces of the slot that holds the case rim are machined true then they'll help push/pull cases straight. I don't actually measure this slot of course, I'm just going by the brass that gets sized and measured for runout.

mathman

An excellent idea. I have had very good luck with the Redding Competition shellholders (I believe they are caled), the ones that come in slightly varied heights to "adjust" for headspace when sizing brass. In fact I have had very good luck with Redding stuff in general.

In regards to seating dies, have you found that the Lee die, which claims to be 'floating' for the seating stem also, to actually work as advertised?

+1 JB.

When I was learning how to setup dies I read your Factors in Accuracy, Part II:Handloads about 4 times. Very helpful information, learned in a couple hours what would taken years on my own.


The 'pushing the expander method' works very well with a Redding die. Gets neck runout down from +.010" into the .002-.004" range. I can get away with floating an RCBS expander and get excellent results.


Djpaintless also encouraged me to purchase a concentricty gauge and I couldn't imagine reloading without one now.

After all, the best part of reloading is shooting little groups!

John, I have been using Lapua brass even though it's expensive. I initially bought it for my 6.5x55 because I didn't want the hassle of possible case head fit problems. Lapua manufacturing quality supposedly makes it less prone to excessive runout. Have you used Lapua brass and tested it for runout? Thanks.

Dakota,

Yes, in my experience the lee dies work as advertised.

Sam,

Yeah, it's amazing not only to shoot tiny groups, but do it again and again!

43Shooter,

Yes, I have used Lapua brass in several calibers, and it is generally the most consistent brass in any caliber.

John:

I'll agree, reading the Factors in Accuracy, Parts I and II many times is a great source of info.

I noticed Hornady has a concentricy tool out now that has a feature to reduce the run-out. Have you had a chance use one? It would seem like the best option would be to fix the problem a little more upstream, rather than at the end.

Scott

John:

What about the Forster sizing dies with their expander balls way up toward the top of the stem? It's supposed to minimize the chances of the expander introducing problems with the neck. Any experience with whether, or not, those claims are true? On the surface, the idea seems solid.

Thanks,
Scott

SWJ,

Yeah, I saw the press release on the Hornady tool, which seems like a great idea. I just haven't had seen one yet.

RSY,

The Forster dies do seem to help, if only because the case doesn't have as much chance to tip when being pulled over the expander ball. But the most consistent sizing dies I've tested have been the Lee Collett and the Redding S-types, because they push the neck down ONLY.

Actually the best sizing dies are those where the case just goes in amd comes out, with the neck sizing done by the die itself. Unfortunately these only work really well if the neck thickness is very consistent. This is true in benchrest shooting, because the necks are turned--but not in most shooting.

Once in a while you can run into a perfect combination of die and brass. My .300 H&H die (RCBS) perfectly matches the neck thickness on my lot of Winchester brass. I just run the brass into the die WITHOUT the expander ball assembly, and it comes out perfectly straight and sized correctly, with just enough neck "shrinkage" to hold bullets firmly.

May I add "and chamber" to the die and brass?

I load for a friend's Low Wall in 260 Rem. and we're blessed with that situation. The ordinary RCBS two die set I had him buy at the gun show where he bought the rifle is just great. Just turn the sizer to touch the shellholder and the die hardly touches the brass anywhere but the neck, and on the way out the expander ball lightly kisses the inside. The rounds chamber smoothly and are straight.

John-- Thanks for the good information and especially that about reloading. I learn something from everyone of your articles--and I also learn what I don't know! Regarding seating bullets straight in the case, you refer to "run out". Exactly what is "run out" and how is it measured in thousandths of an inch? Thank you for taking time to read and perhaps answer my question!
Dan

I have read information on bullet straightness where they say .00x is good, .0x0 is bad, etc. But I can't find a standard on where you measure this. Obviously the further from the neck you measure the larger the number. There is a big difference between .002-.004 near the tip and .002-.004 just ahead of the neck. I just picked up a RCBS gauge so I've been playing with this. I have been measuring at the bullet ogive. Works fine for relative measurements. Measuring there they have varied from .002 to .010 (ugh). Most are in the .005-.007 range. I would like to work that down a bit. These were all first loads on new brass (FL sized first).