Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Are these velocities too good?

Hello all. I've visited this forum as a guest for the past several months. This is my first post. I've learned a lot and the quality of my handloads has improved considerably by simply reading various threads, but today I'm looking for more specific information. Just wanted some feedback regarding results observed at the range today. I'm working on load development for a recently purchased Sako stainless synthetic 25-06. Using the new 100gr barnes TSX. Went to the range with 3 different powders, incremental charges of each, checking velocities with a chronograph and watching closely for pressure signs. I slowly worked up to 2 grains over max for each powder based on data for the plain barnes X as recommened by Barnes. Powders used were H4350, H4831sc, and RL 22. Velocities were considerably higher than expected for H4350 and RL 22, about as expected for H4831sc. Velocity for H4350 at 49.0 gr was 3201 and 3251 at 53.0gr. Velocity for RL 22 at 53.0gr was 3272 and 3409 at 57.0gr. Velocity for H4831sc at 51.0gr was 3023 and 3188 at 55.0gr. Realy no pressure signs to speak of with any of these loads. Perhaps just slight primer flatening at the top charges of each. Max velocity in the latest Barnes manual for a plain X bullet is about 3200 fps. I know Barnes is getting higher velocities with the TSX bullet, but I have a 22 inch barrel and they use a 24 inch test barrel. I suppose the H4350 results are fairly reasonble, but the RL 22 velocities are certainly higher than expected. I've generally held true to JB's advice regarding velocity and pressure - that is if velocities look too good to be true, chamber pressures are too high. However, in my experience to date, I've usually encountered pressure signs of some sort when velocities start looking too good to be true, actually I usually encounter pressure signs before reaching max velocities listed in the manuals. I don't ever recall significanlty surpassing max velocities without seeing some pressure signs. I'm curious about the concesus out there. Are these better-than-expected velocities an indicator of excess pressure, or rather the majic of those triple shock rings at work? Of note, I think the chrono is accurate. Was shooting some 17 HMR through it today and getting 2500-2600fps which is pretty close to the published velocity.

Sometimes the muzzle blast will fool the chronograph. As a quick check move back another 5 ft and
look for a change in reading. Sometimes "pressure signs" don't show up.

Good Luck!

Case expansion is an unreliable test of pressure. Depending on the case, you can be in serious trouble already before it shows in the case. You detected primer flattening which can be another sign. It is not a good idea to go over published maximums for any reason. When you do you can have problems with ambiant temperature, or other factors which can cause you problems you don't need. Always stop at the max published load.

I'd shoot one hull until it puked.

Assuming a sound lot of brass,I think it offers a fair to middlin' pressure measurement. Long way of saying if primers fall out on the second poke,you got her juiced. If she lives 100 pokes,she's "soft".

Common sense prevails and hit reverse at the first sign of weirdness........................

There are no free rides in the reloading game but there are differences in barrels and in lots of powder/primers/etc. I am not concerned if I am 50fps above what is expected but if you are getting 200fps over, I would recheck all the data and make sure you loaded what you had writted down. If you really need those extra fps, get a bigger case. The risk is not worth the benefit.Rick.

Thanks for the feedback. I think I'll go back to the range with few loads of each powder loaded 2 grains down from the max charges listed in my original post and see which is most accurate. I'm hoping the H4350 shoots well because the velocities look most reasonable (still a bit over 3200 fps at 2 grains below max), and I do worry a bit about the temperature stability issue with RL 22. I live in MT and typically hunt antelope in 60 degree weather and well below freezing later in the season. I will move the chronograph a bit further (was about 10-15 ft away). I suppose significant changes in velocity would suggested that previous charges were erroneously measured as mentioned by Rick, but I'm fairly certain charges were correct.

At home, measure 15 feet from the bench's end of the remote's wire and put a piece of tape around the wire. This will serve to give you a measured 15 feet for chronograph placement.

"Pressure signs" don't always "show" until they're so high you are shooting what amounts to "blue pill" loads which could damage or destroy your rifle and possibly injure or kill you. TRUST the readings, etc. in the well-known reloading manuals. Those experts have the facilities and instrumentation to do the job right. Unfortunately, most of us can't afford that all that equipment.

NEVER exceed published "maximum loads". If you do, you're walking through a "mine field". Generally, you'll find (as I have) that the most ACCURATE loads for your rifle are somewhat BELOW "maximum published loads".

In over 40 years of reloading, I've NEVER even once found a published "maximum safe load" to be the MOST ACCURATE load.

Trust me, the game animal you shoot will never know the "difference" between a bullet at 3,000 fps vs. a bullet at 2950 fps or even a bullet at 2900 fps. So what's the point in over-loading the round and pushing the parameters? The accuracy won't be as good and you're beating the he** out of your rifle and, often, your shoulder... and for WHAT?

Play it safe, my friend... you'll never be sorry.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

In my rifle, I started seeing pressure signs in my brass (slightly flattened primer) at the book max for standard X bullets. Velocity was 100 fps faster than Barnes listed for standard X; my barrel is 2" longer than their test barrel so I think the standard X data is pretty close to the data I can use with TSX's in my rifle.

2 grains more with TSX than the standard X seems excessive for a 25-06. Also, unlike other load manuals, I think Barnes is not conservative at all....ie their max load is really max.