Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Does free choice exist in heaven?

In another thread a while back I asked why God allowed evil to exist. Some of the people who responded said that it was integral to free choice. Fair enough and I had expected that answer.

Got to thinking this morning:

So if there is no evil in heaven (and I'm making an assumption here I know), is there free choice there? If so how can that be?

Don't know if anybody can give a definitive answer to that. We can only speculate.

I'd heard the question asked if there is no sin in Heaven then how did Lucifer sin? Tony Evans, of Dallas, TX, gave the best answer to that I have ever heard.

He said that for a created being not to be able to choose to do evil God would have had to clone Himself. Ben Haden said once in a sermon there are three things God cannot do. He cannot tell a lie, remember (hold it against us) a forgiven sin and He can never not be God. I surely am glad I don't have to depend on a Mickey Coleman to save me.

As Mickey says we can only speculate.

But assuming there is a Heaven and a God than I would have to say no. Free thinking/free choice do not lead one to Heaven or God. Therefore, one would have to presume that Heaven would be out for anyone who practices free thinking and free choice.

Now I can just see all the Christians going bonkers over this statement but seriously Christians, think deeply, go mystic, are you really practicing free thinking, free choice or are you just one of the sheeple?

Hence, one of the reasons I practice Zen Deism and follow a Goddess spiritual path. At this point in time I have no desire to see Heaven or God at least as Christians think it.

For one man's opinion on this read The Shack. Best free choice explanation I have read.

I would have to say no. Free choice was given to men. Angels are not men, but creatures. The bible talks of men having to go through a blast furnace to be purified in order to enter heaven. Pure is having no sin, and incapable of such.

So in the previous thread it was stated by some that God wanted companions, not robots. If there is no sin in heaven and therefore no free will, just what is God going the get out of us?

If these are true then why doesn't God just skip the first step mortal life where we must choose or reject Him to the end game and remove our free will?

Hunting or fishing?

� more bushels of proof that finite minds can not understand the infinite God �

I don't think it's about what he'll get, but you, recieving what you have been offered.





Had that, until Eve went apple picking.

Well, at least we're talking about it, and not repeating the 30 Years' War.

"Does free choice exist in heaven?"

Just guessing, of course, I s'pose that there's always the option of "jumping ship," but I doubt that anybody ever does.

Nice for a change. I like it. Maybe we are growing up... well some of us, I flat refuse to grow up.

Honest questions.

We'll all find out soon enough.

I'm betting if most of the 'saved' folks I 'know' are in heaven, must SANE folks will be jumping ship.

It's an interesting question.

One of my favorite science fiction authors is Larry Niven. He invented a fascinating alien (well, sorta) species called the Pak. Reading about the Pak made me think some interesting thoughts.

For example, here's a definition of knowledge: that which reduces free will.

If you have a goal to work toward, and a number of options regarding how to work toward that goal lie open before you, and you have no information or knowledge concerning the consequences of any of those choices, you have a great amount of free will: you can choose any option you want.

However, if you have enough knowledge to know that only three or four of the available options have the potential to lead you to success, and all the rest can only lead to certain failure, your free will is practically diminished. (Yes, you could deliberately pick one of the failure options, theoretically, but in real life you wouldn't.)

Furthermore, if you have enough knowledge to know all the consequences of all the choices, then all your free will is gone: you have no realistic choice other than to choose the option that will lead you most expeditiously to your objective.

So if the passage about seeing now as through a glass darkly, but then face to face can be interpreted as meaning that in Heaven we will know much more than we do on earth, then the argument could be made that yes, we will have less free will in Heaven than we do here on earth.

There you go again picking on the Ladies.

Christianity is a misogynistic religion. It's all the woman's fault for sin. Pagans are Goddess based and don't blame men for evil or bad things for happening. Why is it that Christianity is misogynistic? What is that Christianity has against women?

Before all you Christians start flaming me I realize that in modern Western culture that many Protestant denominations are kinder to women but still in comparison to Pagans you guys are still quite misogynistic.

Barak,

That was an interesting post and I must think about it. Not sure I agree with you in that if you are all knowledgeable, you will always make the right choice as some are knowingly self destructive. Maybe that's their goal. But I usually have to dwell on such things for a while.

Thanks.

BTW I'm a big Niven fan as well. The Mote in God's Eye is one of my favorites.

heaven for climate

hell for conversation

I'm betting that, if we make it there....any of us in this thread, none of us will even care. It will just be grand....