Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Does free choice exist in heaven?

I have some one waiting for me on the other side.......at least I hope shes waiting.

It wasn�t the woman�s fault. It was that damned talking snake.

Long's we can have our good dogs,

....all due respect to Ole' Will Rogers

GTC

No. It logically cannot.

That is, unless only perfect people make it to heaven, ones who would never CHOOSE to do something un-heavenly.

The only other option would be that God runs such a tight heaven-ship that nobody even WANTS (chooses) to do anything funky... and life without some funk, ain't heavenly.

If free choice exists, evil exists. Such is life.

"Heaven....
Heaven is a place...
A place where nothing....
Nothing ever happens!"

Guess I better get my not so perfect azz right to the back of the line, than.

Oh good, this is where all the dogs and horses are anyhoo.

GTC

Close!

The Twain quote, IIRC, is "Heaven for climate, Hell for society."

(Concluding remark about a guy who went to Heaven, met many souls whom he'd fondly hoped were in Hell, and left Heaven to go to Hell to be among old friends.)

Satan tempted and deceived Eve.

Eve disobeyed God and led Adam to disobey God.

Adam neither admonished Eve nor asked God for forgiveness.

There's plenty of guilt for 'em all, but the buck stopped with Adam. If he'd scolded Eve, refused to go along with her and her seducer, or asked God to forgive 'em both for disobeying Him, I believe that God would've forgiven both Adam and Eve.

Hubby died a week after his wife died. She was assigned to show him around Heaven. Her introductory tour revealed her enthusiasm for the place.

"Just look at that! Did you ever see anything so lovely in all your life?"
"Taste this! Did you ever taste anything so delicious?"
"Sit here! Have you ever been so comfortable?"
" � and just think: we get to live here forever, with no rent, utilities, or taxes!"

"Yeah, and if you hadn't insisted on all that damned oat bran, we'd've been here ten years ago."

If you're of the "right mind" to get into Heaven, I'm guessing sin is probably not on your 'to-do' list.

Just guessin'...

A) In Heaven?!
B) If their goal is self-destruction, then increased knowledge will still reduce their free will, as it will prevent them from choosing non-destructive alternatives.


Yup, that was an interesting one, although it's well outside his Known Space universe.

Speaking of non-Known Space books, have you seen The Integral Trees and The Smoke Ring? The setting is a binary-star system where a neutron star orbits one much like our Sun. Far in the past, the neutron star grabbed a gas-giant planet and tore it apart, so that the neutron star is now surrounded by a torus, or doughnut-shaped region, of gas, which for purposes of the story turns out to be atmosphere breathable by humans. Several generations ago, the Smoke Ring was discovered by a ship full of colonists from Earth, whose descendants now live out their lives in it, weightless (except for the inhabitants of integral trees) and without a planet.

Perfect environment for Niven's "what if"-style writing, and he does a bang-up job of it.

Does free choice exist in heaven?

To the original question;

I believe if you find youself in Heaven your choice has already been made!

My simple minded two cents.We are like the fish that looked up through the water and saw a wonderful place with flowers, trees and such.He decides he wants to live there and jumps out of the water onto the rocks.Its does not take long before he realizes that he wants back in the water.This is free will.Trust me the rocks hurt.

"Christianity is a misogynistic religion. It's all the woman's fault for sin"

Adam could have chosen differently. He loved his wife. Tough decision. I've often wondered what would have happened if Adam hadn't eaten from the tree. Also wonder how long he thought about it before deciding. Maybe he and God talked it through for months or years before he made the choice to take the dive with her.

As for the question will there be free will in heaven. Sure. But everyone there has been HERE and "tasted" the difference. They'll be much disinclined to do it again I would think. There's no way Adam could have imagined the scope of it. Or maybe he did... ??? There's no knowing how long they talked it over or how much was revealed to him. They might even have discussed the plan for salvation. Adam could have said "to hell with her, make me another". Who knows? But as it stood there was no way out for Eve. She'd have grown old and died, alone and Adam would have been alone again missing his dear love. Hell would hold 1/3 of the angelic beings and one human. No chance for salvation.... Or, maybe there was... A different plan for just her that was discussed... ??? Again, who knows. Evidently these things aren't important or we don't need to know, otherwise they'd have been discussed in the Bible. All we know is that Adam chose to go with her and so God implemented the plan as it is.

Everything on this topic is guesswork.

Barak,

Yep I've read both Integral Trees and the Smoke ring. Liked them both. I've read most of Nivens stuff (including the Known Space books and short stories) with the exception of his real later stuff.

-Steve

You should be more concerned about getting into heaven,worry about free will after you get there.

The way I see it.Either your a right minded, Conservative, Christian who will live for an eternity in Heaven with Jesus. Or your an atheist, socialist, commie, lefty, pervert, liberal, obama lover and you'll spend an eternity in hell with nancy palosi. If your the later, then I will suggest wrapping yourself in aluminum foil. It may insulate you alittle.

Of course there is free choice in Heaven. The "how" is simple. There is no idiocy in Heaven, thus the right choice will always be made.

I have always maintained the exact opposite..... well, you're right but I would say not "gone" but irrelevant.

Free Will implies knowing all, IMHO. I believe that on earth we each possess a degree of "Free Will". Our journey is to acheive the greatest knowledge which leads to greater freedom of choice. How are you free to choose when only a few in a group of many options is known. Jesus had Free Choice, everyone else... not so much.

In Heaven there is no division of good and evil. The yin/yang are united. The concept would not apply there. The physical world works via the breakup of the whole, division of the Singularity, etc., etc..

bingo - the honest answer is that we don't know, and we trust God with our lives to do what is best because God loves us.

The Bible tells us that we will be made perfect in heaven, our bodys will be whole and healthy and our spirits will no longer posess the sin nature that we are all born with here on earth.

I am just guessing on this part but I beleive the free choice will exist but we will no longer want to choose the evil