Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Newbie Hunting Rifle Suggestion ...

I've a good friend who is getting started hunting. He's going to be in the market for a rifle. The game he'll be going after is mostly whitetail, but there's a elk/deer/antelope hunt in the wings later this year.

We've discussed it a bit, and his friends out west all use the latest lazer-ultra-boomers, so he's thinking about getting the same (caliber envy or something) My opinion is that it's huge overkill ... particularly for a new hunter.

My suggestion is either Ruger M77/Remington 700/Winchester 70/Savage (whatever fits best to the shoulder), in 30.06. Not very sexy, but not terrible recoil, easy to find ammo and powerful enough to take down any game in North America.

What says the oracles of this fine board?

For over 100 yrs there hasn't been a better all around caliber. It might not be optimal for elk under modern conditions but for all else it will fill the bill.
JMHO
Larry

Keep it simple. Pick a cartridge that you can find ammo for easily and affordable so the man can find ammo and can afford to practice. Also, start him off with a blued steel wood stocked rifle so he'll know what a real gun is supposed to look and feel like.


.30-06/.270Win/7Mag all would great 1st choices. Winchester or a Remington would be my choices in rifles but I haven't really shopped for a new rifle in years, there may very well be something that would catch my eye.

Terry

308 will do it all with less recoil.

Not having Tikka in the choices is the only concern I have.

I live in the Kootenays of BC. Here you can hunt, a few of 'em thru LEH draws, whitetails, muleys, elk, moose, black bear, cougar, big horn sheep, mountain goat, and even the odd griz tag is available.

I'd say that the top 3 calibers you'll find around here are, in no particular order: 30.06, 270 Rem., 300 WM.

Somewhat down the list the 7mm Mag and 338 mag are probably next.

Gaining quickly are the 300 WSM, and to a lesser extent, 270 WSM.

If he's a newby, his biggest concern should be that he picks a caliber he can handle without fear of recoil.

The notion that one NEEDS a cannon to knock down elk is, frankly, silly.

Rather, what one NEEDS first and foremost is to be a good shot.

IMHO.

I'd have added CZ too, but didn't want the list to get too long

I agree that 308 is just fine too - that's what I have in a CZ500FS. That's what I'm going to use should we draw tags.

I suggested 30.06 primarily because of recoil. I would rather he learn to shoot with something manageable than develop some bad flinching habits that would be hard to correct later.

Mr. Nailcreek;
I am about the farthest thing from an oracle one is likely to run across so please take my thoughts on the matter in proper context.

I am of the belief that within reason, how a rifle fits the shooter and how the shooter is able to �connect� with said rifle is more important than the bore size.

By reasonable, I would define a beginner�s deer/antelope cartridge as roughly between .25-06 and .338 Federal. I have seen very few new shooters who can deal with recoil levels much beyond .30-06 level without lots of determination and practice.

I realize that you mentioned elk as well, but I can only speculate on what might work there, as I have yet to shoot one.

For any new shooter, I would suspect if they are able to get to a well stocked store and handle a few different rifles, one or two will either fit them better or appeal to them more than the others.

The cartridge does become important if they are restricted to factory ammo and are not able to access less some less common cartridges, for instance the 6.5x54 or 7x64 as extreme examples.

We have used this approach as often as possible and it has been quite successful in getting new shooters started. Many or most actually, have subsequently purchased additional rifles for specialized hunting.

I will also admit that as we age, quite a few of us tend to return to the milder, mid range cartridges that we started with long ago and yes, I include myself in that statement.

Good luck to you and your friend in both rifle shopping and hunting.

Regards,
Dwayne

Dwayne,

I agree with your comments, particularly with your sentiments about "return to the milder, mid range cartridges that we started with long ago".

While I understand the attraction of the latest "bright shiney", I'd rather he start with something that will give him success when used right - and 30.06 will set him up on the right trail in my opinion.

I'm going to take him rifle shopping in the near future - so he can see what fits him and feels comfortable when it comes up to his shoulder. Looking forward to spending other people's money!!

.280rem!

Ask me and I'll tell ya if worried about recoil the -06 has quite a bit of it. Unless your hauling a recoil eatin kimber. but it's not on the list.

Seems to me a .280 with 160gr partitions will handle anything an -06 will with less recoil. Harder to find ammo.

I'm not a huge 270 fan and have no reason for the lack of interest.

Suppose a 308 would be a great choice as if he's a new to hunting 400+ yard shots are not the greatest idea. And a ton of ammo out there.

Still like the idea of a 280. But theres prolly better choices?

I am not a critic but I have shot everything from the .17 cals up to the .416s and I think for the most part if I were to have to go buy a rifle for my son and he's 12 so he is a newbie for the most part, I would go with the 270. Recoil is minimal and if recoil is a problem load down some 110gr TSXs and shoot those at deer and lopes with no problem at all. Then when he gets used to the recoil move up to the 130s and if Elk is on the menu a 150 TSX would work very well also. Its not the size of caliber but where you put that bullet. Nothing flashy about the 270 it can flat just get it done. HAPPY HUNTING

I would have him go with a CZ 550 or a Model 70 in 30/06 and be done with it. Next in importance to the rifle not kicking him too much and placing bullets well would be a good bullet choice. With one of the new super premium bullets, like the Barnes TTSX which I use exclusively and reccommend to my safari clients, one can go down a step or two in bullet wieght, and thus recoil, and still get all of the penetration that is needed for Elk etc. A 30/06 loaded with Barnes TTSX 168's will shoot VERY flat plus will out penetrate and outkill a 300 Win Mag loaded with common lead core bullets and not kick too bad. I have had clients kill cleanly all manner of big game with a 30/06 so loaded up to and including Eland wieghing in at 2,000 lbs. JJ Hack who has far more personal and hands on 1x1 experience than even I do as he spends much more time in Africa has settled on a 30/06 loaded with Barnes 168's as his go to and loaner rifle. I think this speaks volumes. I feel the CZ to be by far the best rifle for the money going right now and the set trigger feature will really help him be able to SHOOT well early on.

Excellent point.

Terry

I was going to say that 30.06 loaded with Barnes 130 TTSX would be a wicked combination, reduced recoil, fast (I'd guess 3100 to 3200 fps) and flat, and quite sufficient for elk.

But a quick check of websites shows that nobody loads this yet...??? Wonder why???

My own limited experience with a Rem. XCR and Tikka T3 Lite in 300 WSM suggests, bullet weights being equal, not much difference in recoil from the 30.06...certainly less than the 300 WM.

That said, ya can never go wrong with the 30.06 for N. American game.


Going to add that...

The difference in recoil between 180s and 130 TTSXs in my 300 WM Vanguard is remarkable. 165s and 180s wore me down pretty quickly.

Done lots of shooting with 30.06 180s in the past, and I'd have to say that I'd rather spend an hour on the bench with the 300 and 130s.

FWIW.

Rather than go into what rifle, I`ll stick with caliber instead.

Your on the right track...... For your friend`s purposes and which will also do for just about any game on the N/A continent, you cannot beat the .30 caliber. You have bullet weights ranging from 110 gr to 220 gr (from varmits to moose even to big bears if necessary), offering the best selection, adaptability and versatility for game that no other caliber offers quite as well........

I will be trying the 130gr. Barnes TTSX at 3500fps in my Oldy-moldy Custom FN Mauser 30 Belted Newton this year. I will report back but I expect great things from this combo.

I agree that the 30'06 / Barnes 130TTSX set up would be a perfectly deadly AND EASY TO SHOOT combo and the new Barnes manual shows (#4) a couple of loads that run 'em at 3300 from a 30/06. Nothing on the wish list this load would not do and well. For a while, John Lazzeroni was loading Moly'ed Barnes 130's for his mega magnum 30 cal's and reports of DRT Elk WAAAAYYY out there were the norm. A 30 cal 180gr Nosler partition, shortly after initial expansion, weighs LESS than or about the same as this 130gr TTSX bullet weighs at the END of its travel through and animal and so if a 180gr 30 Cal Partition is considered adequate for Elk, and I have never heard anyone say otherwise, then the 130 TTSX would be more so as it would be arriving with more speed and momentum to boot. Great idea that I should have added in to my post earlier.

3300 fps? Wow! How sweet would that be from a 30.06, eh!

What, guessing maybe 5.5" drop at 300 yds with a 200 yd zero?

Awesome!

I have a Rem. Sendero in 300 WM, fairly heavy sucker. On the bench with Federal Premium 130 TTSXs, it's recoil ain't a whole lot more than my 25.06 Rem. Varminter. These light Barnes bullets make 300s a joy to shoot at the range.

I can't agree more with you that the Win Model 70, Ruger 77,
or comparable Remington are excellent hunting rifles.
The Model 70 with wood stock and blued steel in my opinion is a classic, "sexy" gun.

As far as a chambering, the 30-06 is a fine rifle.
However, if your friend isnt accustomed to high powered rifles,
he might find the 30-06 kicks more than he likes.

Jack O'Connor was a great gun writer and hunter back in the 60s
and wrote a lot of common sense stuff. Anyway, he commented that a lot of hunters who carried the 06 developed a flinch in anticipation of the recoil, even though they didnt care to admit it. He recommended his pet caliber, the 270 Winchester.
The 270 will work well for deer and larger game and is very flat shooting. He would want to use a lighter bullet for deer and pick a heavier, perhaps 150 gr, of heavy construction for elk.
A neighbor of mine hunted the Trans Pecos region of TX for years with a Model 70 in 270- he was well served by his rifle. My uncle killed his deer meat and feral hogs with a 270.

Also, if your friend is going to be hunting at no more than 100 -150 yards, he would be well served by the Model 94 Winchester
30-30. Some people despise the old 30-30 and that is their choice, but within range the 30-30 is a killer. One old hunter said that at less than 100 yards, the 30-30 would drop a deer quicker than the 30-06 because of the flat point bullet. Many a moose has been killed with the old 30-30. It would not be the best antelope round unless he is close. Some say that feral boar hogs are as tuff as bears, whatever the case, the 30-30 is deadly on them.

I would advise you as some others have to buy a very common caliber- they are common because they have worked well for so long. All the new wonder bullets are great, but wont help all that much. Go with either a 30-30, 270, 30-06 etc. 300 Win Mag and 7mm Mag are also very common, but will not do much more than the 270 or 06.

Buy regular ammuntion too. The stuff you buy at WalMart is just as good as anything. Winchester Super X Powerpoints and Remington CoreLokt bullet have been bringing home meat since the 1930s. The 150 CoreLokt would be a good choice for moose as well as the Nosler Partition bullet.

Add LeverEvolution ammo to the Marlin or Winchester 30.30s, and you can stretch the effective range easily to 200 yds...and I wouldn't hesitate at 250 yds given a proper target.

You can't go wrong with a 30-06 and 180 Partitions for anything in the lower 48. Top it off with a 3-9 or 2-7 Loopy, and slay an Arkload of critters. I might also suggest you keep him away from Comic Books and the 'Fire.

As far as rifles, you might see how he like the T3 Tikka. By far the most rifle for the money out there today. I'm convinced, if you can show me a T3 that won't shoot. I'll show you a rifleman that can't shoot...