Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire This ought to generate some discussion

I know poor people who are poor by choice: Case in point, the parents of some of the 5th graders I taught in the city. When I'd try to tell the kids to work hard and do well in school so they could get a good job someday, they'd reply: "Why? My mom stays home all day and just has to pick up a check on the first!"

Then there are people who by no fault of their own are poor. Case in point, a lot of the guys I know who work in the HVAC field right now. Hard-working guys who are being laid off left and right because work has declined. They will work again, to be sure, but for the time being their fortunes have declined and I'm always conscious that I'm just a bad month away from joining them.

When I worked in the junkyard I wasn't poor, but I took that job because I knew it would always be work and I was willing to work hard to keep my family above water. I'd do it again in a heartbeat despite the physical toll it took on me.

What your post stated was a poorly thought-out rant based on emotions, not reality. Sorry to bust you like that but the "working poor" are very real and one bad choice or unplanned pregnancy/etc. can really make someone's ability to make their own "luck" infinitely harder.

He should have been putting away, as permanent investment principle, at least 10% of his income over his entire working life. You make your life-style match only 90% of your income in order to do that. That's a starter. Not saying someone's stupid for not doing that. Could be that no one ever impressed upon them the idea of disciplined savings and conservative investment from an early age.

I agree more with this above statement. I'm not impoverished by any means, but I don't have allot extra and I worry about retirement even though its sometime down the road. I've been on my own since I've been 17, put myself through college, have A+ credit, but if I were to loose my job or had a medical emergency things could turn around real quick.

To many people in this day and age are lazy and think they deserve everything handed to them. Same goes with minorities (not all of them), they have more opportunities than the vast majority of people, but still dwell on what happened to their great great grandparents. GET OVER IT and do something with your life.

It took 2 years to go through the process of getting on disability. My moms was the only income and with the medical bills the savings quickly went away. The majority of all foreclosures in this country are from disability. The costs of meeting your deductable and paying 20% of a medical bill will eat up savings and investments rather quickly. The 2 years back pay from Social Security didn't make up the difference.

This is just sort of an aside but has anyone besides me noticed that when good folks fall on hard times, as sometimes happens, they are too proud, stubborn, hard headed or what ever to ask for help. Kills their soul to admit they have to have some help. They are the ones that sneak in the back door of the food bank and leave with their coat over their face holding just what they have to have to get by.

OTOH those who are cronic govt. cheese eaters are first in line talking on their cell phones and pushing a wheelbarow.

BCR

There's a big difference between "stupid" and possessing a skill that's not needed here(because the job was exported or left on a battlefield).

KC, I think you'd make a great welcoming committee for our vets that are going to come home in the next year or two just to find few jobs and possible assorted health problems. I've got no issue with draining the bathwater, but take the baby out first.

There are lazy people everywhere,not just in one particular geographic area. It is, however, easier to live without good shelter or fuel in some areas with warmer weather.

Being poor is frerquently not a matter of money. I know quite a few people who would quickly become poor again if you threw huge amounts of money at them. You could give them a check for a million dollars today and come back in two years to find them broke with nothing to show for the million they spent.

People from all walks of life fall on hard times. Some will pick themselves up, especially if they get a helping hand from someone else. Some will be arrogantly aggressively poor and adopt being a deserving victim as a lifestyle. Some wil be grateful for the help and some will resent the help and criticize the people who tried to help them because they did not give them enough.

It is very difficult and inaccurate to try to paint all causes of poverty with the same brush. That is the main reason it is impossible to eliminate poverty by simple measures such as throwing other peoples's money at it.

Doesn't sound like you'd do very well with a bad luck streak...

You need to take innate intelligence into account. There are lots of folks who work hard, and have great character but are poor because they are performing at the limits of their intelligence. A guy with an IQ of 90 can work hiss azz off to the limit of his ability and still not get anywhere. What about him?

Got hurt on the job in 2001. Doctors, a whole bunch of Doctors all said NO Work. WC insurance company said "We don't want to pay" and so they didn't. Fought the whole mess, all the time in chronic back and leg pain with spasms that would put me on my face on the ground, for five and a half years. Four and a half with no income. Thank God we had no debt going it to the mess and we came out with no debt but was hard.

So, am I a lazy piece of dodo because I got hurt and was prohibited from working?

BTW, I average around 60 hours a week now and still live in pain 24/7. Am I still lazy?

It's not intelligence. You raise a kid with an 80 IQ to understand self-discipline (save at least 10% of what comes in as conservative investment capital, and don't spend more than you have after the bills are paid), and he will do just fine if he has a good work ethic. People aren't taught to save anymore.

How many of these people do you know Hawk? I�ve got a bunch in the low level positions who are great people but how much are they supposed to be able to save when it takes everything they are capable of making to eat and pay the rent?

You can�t judge these people according to your own experience because they simply can�t think like that.

Sometimes it's just having the balls to take a chance.

I believe if you pay into the system, no matter how small, you should reap the benefits, but if you are one of the welfare folks that are pumping out kids, "YA GET NOTHIN" Les

there is a huge difference between people who are dealing with what might be called "situational" poverty....caused by external events, and those who are mired in generational, cultural poverty.


very few people begrudge a helping hand to the first group, but most Americans are heartily sick of the second.


and it isn't racial, its cultural. Blacks who adopt middle class values move out of poverty, whites who adopt the "values" of the underclass sink into poverty.

Yep, and some of them like to live that way.

Lots of good points made in this thread, hopefully we have been blessed with the wisdom and compassion to recognize the better points and ignore the others. Poverty is only one step away for anyone. Financial security normally comes after taking many steps down a long difficult road. Often we are assisted by others on that journey. Inturn we are indebted to assist others who are attempting to achieve financial security.

Sometimes I wonder who the "stupid" people really are. 'Us' that spend our lives working or 'Them' that don't.

Unfortunately, my parents only offered the 'Morality' choice so off to work I go...

If you're going to save, you better find something besides cash to store your assets away in,...and the alternatives are getting fewer by the day.

A lot of good comments here. I'll keep mine short. I don't have a problem helping those who can't, but I DAMN sure have a problem helping those who WON'T!!!!