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JWP, No offense to you, but your post bores me and does not reflect or answer the original question. My two questions:
1) Has anybody seen a petal-type hollow-point of OVER .30 caliber fail to open all the way?
2) Has anybody seen a petal-type plastic tip fail to open all the way? Why are you posting unfired bullets? Berg's and Brads photo's clearly show that all copper bullets have problems with performance consistency. Jack Oconnor long ago recognized this when he first used Fred Barnes copper bullets back in the 40's. Nothing has changed. I've never seen somebody so obsessed with a god like obsession with Barnes bullets. Do you have a better answer as to why we are seeing mostly Barnes failures here?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Rather hard to post a fragmented bullet photo, collecting the small particules is extremely difficult..
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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JWP,
Jack Oconnor long ago recognized this when he first used
Fred Barnes copper bullets back in the 40's. Nothing has changed.
I've never seen somebody so obsessed with a god like obsession with Barnes bullets.
Maybe you need to read P.O. Ackley it seem that he had great success with Lathe turned all copper bullets and thought highly of them. You're right not much has changed they still kill extremely well
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Every bullet company's materials will have some variance from lot to lot. It's impossible not to. Your full of excuses, again. When it comes to pure copper it I believe has a more profound effect, obviously. You don't have a lot of substantial evidence to back up your claim, other than your whims. Arguments based on nothing more than a notion are weak and unimpressive. So, tell me again, what makes copper different from lead, or from copper alloys, in this regard?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Every bullet company's materials will have some variance from lot to lot. It's impossible not to. Your full of excuses, again. When it comes to pure copper it I believe has a more profound effect, obviously. You don't have a lot of substantial evidence to back up your claim, other than your whims. Arguments based on nothing more than a notion are weak and unimpressive. So, tell me again, what makes copper different from lead, or from copper alloys, in this regard? +1
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Do you have a better answer as to why we are seeing mostly Barnes failures here?
1. More people use them, obsess over them, and take pictures of them compared to other monolithic bullets of the same construction (tipped vs hp). Statistics- law of large numbers. 2. Nobody takes pictures, or really cares even, when a cheap bullet fails. So we don't see many pics of them. 3. There is evidence of hp's of all makes having their noses clogged or pinched, and not expanding. It's not an exclusive Barnes attribute. 4. Copper is inherently harder than lead, and therefore harder to force open in expansion. etc.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Look buds,
I heard it from Randy Brooks (owner of Barnes bullets) own mouth at a SCI convention in Reno.
I and a friend asked him personaly about why our Barnes bullets failed.
Mine penciled through and my buddies shattered inside the animal.
Randy's response and I qoute,
"I bought a bad batch of copper and it effects the bullets that are made." He, Randy said there is nothing he can do about it.
There was also an article a few years back by the editor of Rifle and Handloader stating as much, seems he, Randy has bought more than one bad batch over the years.
So, as far as the owner of Barnes bullets, IT'S THE COPPER he buys.
Do you have a better answer than Randy as to why Berg's, Brad's and others Barnes bullets failed to open up?
Any answer?
I doubt you do, due to the Kool Aid you've been drinking.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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SU-don't forget that Chuck and I both had TSX's that failed to open this last fall as well.
Like I've said b4, it's a good bullet when it works and it seems to work the vast majority of the time...I just have a tough time trusting it these days?
Jordan nothing personal here, just a curious question but how old are you? And b4 you or anyone else takes offense it's just a curiousity is all, I'm intrigued by trying to figure out other people that I've yet to meet.
Thx
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Outfitter
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1. More people use them, obsess over them, and take pictures of them compared to other monolithic bullets of the same construction (tipped vs hp). Statistics- law of large numbers.
Oh really! 2. Nobody takes pictures, or really cares even, when a cheap bullet fails. So we don't see many pics of them.
What a lame answer. 3. There is evidence of hp's of all makes having their noses clogged or pinched, and not expanding. It's not an exclusive Barnes attribute. Show us the evidence, please! What other hunting hollow point are you talking about? I've shot enough game with Sierra HPBT Gameking's to know for fact they always opened up. 4. Copper is inherently harder than lead, and therefore harder to force open in expansion. I think we just might have a winner! Jordy is starting to see the light!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Like I've said b4, it's a good bullet when it works and it seems to work the vast majority of the time...I just have a tough time trusting it these days?
Mark, I totally agree.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Look buds,
I heard it from Randy Brooks (owner of Barnes bullets) own mouth at a SCI convention in Reno.
Why didn't you say so?! I'm sure Randy has done his research, and has substantial evidence and reasons for saying so based on scientific analysis. If indeed he said so himself, then I believe it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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SU-on the Sie HPBT, that is one of my all time fav bullets! Kind of wished they'd of made one for my 340 and 338 WSM...grin
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Outfitter
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Jordan nothing personal here, just a curious question but how old are you? And b4 you or anyone else takes offense it's just a curiousity is all, I'm intrigued by trying to figure out other people that I've yet to meet.
Thx
Dober No offense taken. I'm 26. Why do you ask?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Boy, THAT'S re-assuring! You'd think there'd be a way for them to check the copper before making it into a "premium" product that people stake so much on... sheesh... Accubond... what was the question again?  -jeff Look buds,
I heard it from Randy Brooks (owner of Barnes bullets) own mouth at a SCI convention in Reno.
I and a friend asked him personaly about why our Barnes bullets failed.
Mine penciled through and my buddies shattered inside the animal.
Randy's response and I qoute,
"I bought a bad batch of copper and it effects the bullets that are made." He, Randy said there is nothing he can do about it.
There was also an article a few years back by the editor of Rifle and Handloader stating as much, seems he, Randy has bought more than one bad batch over the years.
So, as far as the owner of Barnes bullets, IT'S THE COPPER he buys.
Do you have a better answer than Randy as to why Berg's, Brad's and others Barnes bullets failed to open up?
Any answer?
I doubt you do, due to the Kool Aid you've been drinking.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Apr 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Like I said Jordan, just curious. Like bullets I kind of enjoy the study of people and trying to sort out what makes them tick.
Thx for not taking offense, I appreciate it.
And not to side track this thread too much but do you make it down to any of the Stampede festivities very often?
Gracias
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Campfire Outfitter
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1. More people use them, obsess over them, and take pictures of them compared to other monolithic bullets of the same construction (tipped vs hp). Statistics- law of large numbers.
Oh really! 2. Nobody takes pictures, or really cares even, when a cheap bullet fails. So we don't see many pics of them.
What a lame answer. 3. There is evidence of hp's of all makes having their noses clogged or pinched, and not expanding. It's not an exclusive Barnes attribute. Show us the evidence, please! What other hunting hollow point are you talking about? I've shot enough game with Sierra HPBT Gameking's to know for fact they always opened up. 4. Copper is inherently harder than lead, and therefore harder to force open in expansion. I think we just might have a winner! Jordy is starting to see the light! Let's see... 1. Yup. 2. Sit on it for a few days. You'll see. Or maybe not. 3. I never said "hunting bullets." It's an observation regarding the design of hp bullets. Nothing to do with their application. 4. If a person doesn't already know this, then they probably didn't go to high school. Nothing to do with different "lots" of copper, but is inherent to the element of copper itself. Whether or not he bought bad batches is a whole different issue.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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An 8mm Cor-Loc that failed to expand on a Moose ![[Linked Image]](http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d62/jwp475/8mmFailedCoreloc.jpg) I'm sure that this will be ignored, after all it's not a TSX
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Outfitter
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Like I said Jordan, just curious. Like bullets I kind of enjoy the study of people and trying to sort out what makes them tick.
Thx for not taking offense, I appreciate it.
And not to side track this thread too much but do you make it down to any of the Stampede festivities very often?
Gracias
Dober Definitely no offense taken here, no worries. I'd enjoy sitting down and sharing a dog town or elk camp with you someday if the opportunity permitted. I used to go down to the Stampede every year, but over the years the excitement has worn off. Now I probably go every few years. Have you ever been?
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Campfire Outfitter
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I did not want to drag him into our "discussion's" here. Look, I've stopped using Nosler ABs. Over the past 4 years I've seen failures with the bullet. They, Nosler had a "bad" batch as well. It was supposed to only have been with 30/180's, but I've seen bad bullets in 338/225's 338/180's 30/200's and 30/165's. I'm a picky man, I want my bullets to work every time.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Jordan, you are a bastion of calm and rationality- in general- on these discussions and that's extra-commendable for someone 26 years old.
Maybe you just haven't had time to get old and grouchy yet <g>.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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