Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Best protien sources, gaing helthy weight?

I was thinking if I could put a little weight on I might be able to better backpack hunt. But I am losing weight. Only a couple pounds over the last few years, but I�d actually rather be putting muscle/weight on. So I was wondering how you guys get your protein? On the sheep hunt in the picture under my name, my buddy and I had both trained hard, but on the way out he was having a lot easier time than I was. He is tall and about 240 with no fat. I�m about 5�11 and weigh 160 right now. If I were to put more muscle on (like that buddy), carrying heavy loads should be easier, right?
I asked my family doctor, also an avid hunter, about healthy weight gain. He said I was looking at it wrong. He said if I weigh less, as long as I�m healthy, the climbing will be easier because I�d be carrying less weight. I feel I�m a strong hiker, but wanted to try putting some healthy weight on to see if it would help. One of my BILs is also a doctor. He is 6�4 and on the thin side. He also thinks most people are way too heavy and said not to worry about gaining weight, but just to keep working out.
I still would like to try. I�m not interested in bulking up, just getting stronger. I�ve found that when I lift hard, I get stronger, but lose weight and get veiny. I�m guessing I�m not getting enough protein, so a few years ago I tried some Walmart protein whey powder you mix with milk. It tasted so bad to me it actually gagged me. I forced it down for months, still lifting, adding creatin, and saw zero benefits.
So I went to GNC and bought different,more expensive powders. I gagged them down foe months, still nothing. Then I tried different bars. Then I tried weight-gainer with protein, thinking that maybe the running and hiking were just burning too many calories. It went to my stomach. Not what I wanted.
I guess I should give a little more background if I want useful advice. I do free wieghts for about 20 minutes M,W,F, (high weight, few reps) and I use the exercise bike Tu, Th, and Sa (or hike) for 30 minutes. (I got the bike and stopped running last summer. after 20 years, because the foot doctor said the running has caused scar tissue to build up and given me tarsal tunnel.) My workout routine has been the same for several years. If anything I should be gaining weight because I�m no longer running and a hike far less than I use to. Also, I may be at a genteic disadvantage concerning putting weight on. Both my parents are short and thin They are now in their mid 60s and have always been thin. (My little brother is big, but not all mucsle.)
I can�t afford steak everyday. I drink milk and force myself to eat cottage cheese. (I�ve eaten the game meat already.) Should I just start eating a lot more skinless chicken and fish? Should I try different supplements or powders? Should I exercise differently? Again, I�m not looking to get bulky, I just want to put some healthy muscle mass on.
What do you guys do to maintain or gain healthy wieight?

The incredible, edible, egg.

Sounds to me that you have "plateaued" in your work outs. I'm a scrawney guy and always have trouble trying to bulk up. I've found that if I do a weight lifting routine for more than 3 weeks straight I won't get as sore and my results will taper off. I will then switch to a completely different routine and the results will come back.

I found a good personal trainer is worth the money. A gym I used to belong to had a free "work out planner" and that was great too. I say mix it up.


Also, beware of cholesterol in your protein sources.

Good luck.

Go do a consult with a nutritionist or personal trainer. They will make a workout schedule for you that will meet your goals. If your lifting at a gym I bet they have one on staff.

They should be able to help you with diet and a good excercise program. The best way I have found to be conditioned for the mountains is to do your work out in them. No matter how much time I spend in the gym ( which isn't much anymore) I still get worked on my first real hard hike. I have been trying to take my daughter in my pack and just hit the local trials. Nothing seems to work better for me then actual boot time.

I deal with people everyday in your situation.Some peoples body types just don't allow the weight gain of muscle.(i'm the same way)your doctor is right just keep working out!When you you get "veiny"thats not from lack of protein that is just your genetics,body type,metabolism.At the weight your are at you use less calories on your hunt which in turn makes you more efficient than your friend that weights 240.the bigger you are the more calories you burn and need.Understand?Keep doing what you are going.Talk to a personal trainer and a nutritionist.What helps me and some of my clients is do 2 weeks light weight high reps then the next 2 weeks heavy weight low reps the trick is to keep your body guessing.hope this helps feel free to ask more questions.20 mins isn't really enough time to get a good workout in for your muscle's try a little long.

I wish I had the problem of struggling to add weight. Admittedly, some of mine isn't necessarily the right kind of weight.

One of the problems with various additives (like creatine) is that they require upkeep and repeated use to maintain their effect. Unless you are using them for short term gains, the effects are not usually helpful as they rarely stay with you.

Something to consider is that as we age, the ability to change the body becomes more difficult. Yes, of course, many people have rapid transformations but many do not last. Also, too many programs are for more the aesthetic aspects rather than core strengths as you want. Having heard the term "country strong" based on how deceptively strong farmers tend to be (and we don't see many winning body building contests, do we), I always laugh about claims of miraculous gains of strength or great abs.

Ultimately, aside from sheer strength (as in lifting capacity), a major measure of strength is longevity. Being able to carry a 100 pound meat load for miles can be a lot more important than being able to carry 150 pounds for a fraction of a mile.

I think Kenaiking has the right answer. To augment your efforts, see a professional -- be aware, however, there are many "experts" so make sure they understand your goals and don't try to give a one-size-fits-all solution, but to get ready for a specific environment get into that environment. You can hike with a laden pack and gain much more (in terms of specific skills and techniques) than you can on a stair master.

Good luck!

IDMilton:

I agree with your doctor. People are different in their builds, as you know. It doesn't take much muscle to carry a pack on a hunt. What it takes is mental and physical endurance. Rather than putting on weight, I think your training needs to modified. Backpack hunting is all about endurance. You need to train your mind and body to work for long periods of time. Your workouts are all short-term, so your mind and body are not conditioned to perform in the manner you're asking them to during a backpack hunt.

Here's what I do. My normal work out routine is nearly identical to yours. However, come summer time, I'll change to doing much longer aerobic stints, less often, to train my muscles for endurance. I find more than 30 minutes on a piece of exercise equipment to be intolerably boring. I prefer loaded hikes outdoors instead. I'll try to get out every weekend and hike for a few hours with a loaded pack. I don't live in mountains, so I just find some hills and hike up and down them. Doing this once a week for 2-3 hours until hunting season starts trains my body for endurance, and prepares me for the hunt.

I'm not a fitness expert, but this technique works for me. I hope this helps.

Scott Brooks

ID-I've got some good news for you. But first...did you know that after we reach our mid twenties, we lose a pound of lean muscle mass a year, unless it is replaced?

Contrary to popular opinion, you need to eat a source of protein before you go to bed. The time between supper and breakfast is too long for the body to go without protein. When your metabolism starts to slow down at night, it will eat lean muscle, not fat as believed.

I have put on 5 lbs of lean muscle and lost 3" around my waist in the last 3 months. Buy the book "Core Performance Essentials" and pay particular attention to the nutrition section.

And get back into the protein powder. Especially right after a workout, and or before bed.I used to HATE it too. But this new stuff from GNC is the bomb. "Wheybolic Extreme 60" I like chocolate and vanilla flavors. I mix it with fat free skim milk, and it's great.

I hope this didn't sound like an ad for anything, but this has helped me tremendously since November..............Al

Try eating ample amounts of good quality pasta (complex carbs) every day and especially after you work out. As for protein, try adding a good whey protein to your diet (pick one that does not have artificial sweetners, fitrx.com has some great choices).

You'll gain muscle mass if you add those two foods to your diet and work out using low reps, heavy weight. Follow up with some cardio exercises. It's important to take in more calories than you burn and consume plenty of complex carbs if you want to gain muscle.

Don't overtrain, your appetite should increase as you gain muscle mass. If you feel overtired all the time and your appetite drops off, you are overtraining.

MtnHtr

Best protein sources for gaining weight ?
First of all, out bodies only need about 1 gram of protein for each seven pounds of body weight. Hard core athletes need very little more than that. So says the University of Calif. at Berkeley. And so says the Federal Food Guidelines.
Protein is one of those foods that's very popular and talked about alot. That's good because the diet guru's need to make money off of all the fads that float around about it. The truth is that we americans and the canadians eat somewhere between 3-3.5 times as much protein as we need.
So, why are so many of us fat and others can't "bulk up" so readily ? That depends on what the body does with all of this extra protein. Active people burn it, especially if they don't eat much in the way of complex carbohydrates. The inactive get their's converted to fat which gives them the kind of extra weight nobody wants.
In the US and Canada, the average person gets about 43% of their calories from fat. Almost that much from protein and the rest from carbohydrates, much of it sugar.
After many years of reasearching all of the studies on the subject, and over the howls of the diet crowd which makes big money out of diet fads, the US government came out with the Federal Food Guildlines several years ago. They have since been modified to include a few more calories from fat, about 35%. But they still try to get you to eat at least 50% of your calories from complex carb sources. They want us to cut way back on sugar and salt.
Why would increasing your complex carbs benefit a guy that is trying to get stronger ? Because you are allowing your body to use proteins to rebuild and add to the tissues it already has instead of burning it as fuel.
What happens is that the body goes through it's glucose and glycogen stores which come from carbs. Then it converts the proteins on hand to glucose. The last stage is the consumption of the body's own muscle tissue as fuel. In other words, many of us consume muscle tissue and try to make it at the same time due to poor diet choices.
Try reading a copy of "Body Fueling" by Roblyn Landis. She's got a web site, www.bodyfueling.com where you can order her book. It made a huge difference in what I can do in the mountains.
Off hand,, I'd say your workouts aren't long enough.
I have alot of trouble keeping weight on during the summer when I do very long, high altitude hikes that cover 10-15 miles between 7000- and almost 10,000 ft. Like wise when I spend 6-7 weeks elk hunting in Montana. Lots of long days on the trail there too. Lost 14 lbs. in 8 weeks during the 2007 season. This last year, I only lost a few pounds even though I walked further and hunted harder. My secret ? I took more days off and made sure I ate lots of complex cvarbs all the time. When in doubt, I'd eat. Routine for me to eat 3-4 Power Bars and the same in Cliff Bars besides a big breakfast and dinner when hunting.
I wouldn't worry much about increasing your weight. I'd worry about increasing your endurance. But if you insist on a weight gain, I'd stress the carbs first maybe some more fat and see how that works. I'd bet money you are getting more protein than you need to gain muscle. E

My experience with gaining muscle mass may differ from yours. I am not experienced in elite endurance competition (running/biking/mountain racing). I am very experienced in short duration, anaerobic or combined anaerobic/aerobic exertion (football/basketball).

Even when lifting hard and frequently, I never gained weight eating normally - that is - three meals per day and a snack or two. Only when I made a concerted effort to eat a meal-size meal 6 times per day, did I gain any weight. The bulk of the weight I gained was "good weight", the remainder sloughed off once I entered a period of higher activity and less food consumption. The good weight and accompanying strength tended to stick around if I kept up with lifting. It was recommended to me to not fret and worry too much about what I ate, just to eat a lot of it. I ate everything in sight, but in retrospect, I had adequate protein and vitamin intake, plus a bunch of calories from various carb and fat sources. Obviously I had enough fuel that the protein went to muscle development.

20 minutes of lifting will not give you near enough volume for muscle development, even if your focus was solely on upper or lower body in those 20 minutes. If at any point in those 20 minutes you're doing some sort of beach boutique exercise (curls, calf raises, leg extensions, shrugs, flys, etc.) you are surely fooling yourself. Restrict your lifting to hard lifts that work groups of muscles: squats, power cleans, snatches, deadlifts, presses, pullups, dips, rows, etc.

You can gain strength lifting only 3 times per week, but your workout must be very voluminous. By that I mean lots of weight and lots of reps. Don't fall into some misguided notion of high weight/low reps builds mass and low weight/high reps builds endurance. You can make tremendous strength and mass gains with sets of 8 to 12 repetitions, but those sets better leave you lightheaded, winded, and shaky. Same as with the sets of fewer repetitions. Start all of your lifts with lower body work. That way, if you're too tired to get your upper body lifts in by the time you get to them, you've done the important ones already. Lifting only 3 times per week, you could squat each of those 3 days and not overtrain. Same for cleans or snatches.

I would take a hard look at how to go about eating lots of food for not much money. You'll probably get adequate protein in the process. If you got the bucks, go ahead and refine the diet so that your food breaks down neatly into a good proportion of lean meat, some fat, and lots of complex carbs. Otherwise, just eat lots, and often.

E - that's a very informative post, thanks for sharing that.

If you want to increase muscle weight and get stronger, then by all means do so. However, you'll still likely be whipped coming off the mountain if your preparation is all in the gym. A few years ago a friend gave me Tony Russ's book on Alaska sheephunting. The section on fitness is really straightforward. I use it to remind myself what to do to get ready for the fall.

I've also added a little fitness test/training method that my cousin shared with me. His firefighting crew has a 3 miles/45 minutes/ 50 lb ruck fitness test. You put on the ruck and walk the distance in less than 45 minutes. If that's too easy, then add some more weight.

You'll need to add or switch out to your gym workouts actual hiking with a heavy pack. There is no good substitute. Fortunately, it's fun. Even very fit people often have trouble carrying a pack in rough terrain.

Also be careful not to fixate on scale weight and focus on body composition. Weight can vary quite a bit due to increase or decrease in hydration, fat gain or loss, or muscle gain or loss.
A simple trick for males to check body composition changes is to use a tailor's tape to measure around your waist, level and belly button high. No holding your breath or sucking in the stomach. Measure and record. On the next taping, compare. Fewer inches = less bodyfat. More inches = more fat.

Regardless of what some folks say, the ability to pack large amounts of weight (up to and over 100 lbs) and the strength/bulk that goes with it does not ever put you at a disadvantage to someone in similar cardiovascular condition with less strength. It is indeed possible to be big/strong and have mountain hunting endurance.

As for cardio training, I don't think you can overdo the toughening of your feet. The only way your feet get toughened is by walking with weight uphill, downhill, and sidehill. If you do enough hiking on steep hills with weight in a pack to get yourself in good cardiovascular shape, your feet will be tough enough. If you do all your cardio work in tennis shoes, your feet will probably suffer during the hunt.

Give the Crossfit website a look. It will dramatically increase your functional strength in a relatively short period of time.

Thank you, cfran. E

The only way you will be able to put on significant muscle mass, is if you take in calories and increase your daily intake of protein. When I was in high school and wanted to gain weight for football, I drank protein shakes twice a day (morning, evening). That in combo with lots of weight training allowed me to go from 145 in mid-March to 185 by mid-August. Granted, I was still in a growing stage but, it would still work for you I'm sure. Figured I'd also add, a little bit was water weight, and some fat, as I then cut down to under 160 by that December though I did lose a good bit of muscle mass.

Mixing up your workouts so you can "shock" your muscles is a great way to stimulate growth. Mixing weights and reps really keeps them "guessing" and helps prevent plateauing.

As far as wanting to gain weight purely because it might be easier, is the wrong way to think about it. You want to increase overall body strength, which will allow you to pack heavy loads more efficiently. Your doctor is right, being lighter will make heavy loads easier than being heavier with the same strength. Being a bit heavier while increasing your strength will make signifcant difference in your power/endurance.

I compare it to when I used to wrestle. You always wanted to be strong but, everyone cuts weight to get as low as possible, because you're going to be much better at a lower weight and strong, as opposed to heavier with similar strength.

Lots of good advice here. If you want to gain weight then add more carbs to your diet. If you want it to be good weight then add complex carbs as well as keeping your protein intake high. The part about training in your gear/weight is right on. Also training on hills and at altitude if you can is great. As far as getting in great shape at the gym, try to vary your workouts like the person who recommended crossfit said. High intensity, whole body workouts 2-3 times a week with some light cardio or weight training on in between days is really the best way to get in shape and stay that way. Crossfit, P90X, HIT center and various other similar programs will help you. I try to incorporate a little of each of those into my workouts. For example, 20-30 min of high intensity/high HR cardio think 85-90% of max HR followed by weight training that works you to exhaustion on each set while keeping HR at about 65-70% max for another 30-40 minutes. Your weights can vary each day as long as you hit all the muscles groups and use free weights to hit groups of muscles and also to use core muscles. Your cardio can vary from sprints to elliptical, to treadmill running, to jumprope drills, to bike, to swim or anything that will get your HR up to that number. Always drink lots of water and stay well hydrated. The main thing to remember is to work yourself as hard as you can for about 1 hour 2-3 times a week. If you want to really increase your endurance, do this workout 2 times a week and some long slower cardio on the inbetween days. It certainly keeps it more interesting than a weights routine that leaves you feeling like you didn't do anything.

I'm the guy who started the thread. First, thank you for the responses. I'm a slow typist, so I know the effort involved to repond to a question, and I appreiiate the advice.
I will look into those books and articles. It sounds like I need to start with increasing complex carbs and switching up my workout. I will make an effort to increase the time and rotate routines.
Several people commented on the idea of training in the hills with weight in the pack. I should have clarified. When I stated that on Saturdays I ride the bike or hike for 30 minutes, I meant the 30 minutes was on the bike. When I go hiking, it is for several hours. I usually hike weekly from May through November. The problem, again, is the weight loss associated with trying to get stronger.
Again, thank you. I'll need to read through the posts again and start implemting some of these ideas to see what might help me. The post that stated we lose a pound of lean muscle a year stood out to me. That is the exact weight loss I've seen. I guess I might just need a way to stop aging!

Look up P90X its a workout routine . Your routine that you have been doing so long has become just that routine and is not challenging your body anymore , you need to step it up.Add more areobic/cardio to you work out too, your just getting warmed up in 30 minutes.My old hady has built herself up to an hour and 45 minutes a day on the elyptical machine with a 40 lb pack on. Hell I just told her I was gonna throw a moose hind quarter in there if she really wanted a workout.he he he