Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What's with the 8x57 MAGNUM? I'm confused!

Yeah, I think it does. The ol' 8x57 is still a very fine cartridge.

I find the position of the shoulders of interest in the following photo. I think a lot of people don't realize that the shoulder on the 8x57 is further forward than on the 7x57.



-Bob F.

I am going to give the 8x57 a go this elk season (assuming I draw) using this recently acquired Walther Model B. The one on the right. The one on the left is its little 7x57 brother. First dance for me with the round. Al's write was a bit short on load data so what loads have you folks worked with using some of the newer bullets available?

I also consider the 8x57 a fine cartridge and in the same ballpark as the 30-06; and that's not a bad place to be. Never got around to trying any of the hotter 8x57 Euro-Loadings cause when I first got an 8x57 I also picked up a set of RCBS 8x57 dies from a widow selling off her late husband's reloading stuff. I always considered the cartridge to be a handloader's proposition due to all the bad publicity over the years about those anemic loads that the U.S. companies were turning out. I'm so happy with the handloads that I probably won't shell out the money for factory ammo. Heck; I don't even worry about getting 8x57 brass. If you don't mind the extra labor of cutting and trimming, 8x57 brass can be created from 30-06 brass with a Redding Form & Trim die, (Redding #83159 according to the box label). Better than half the 8x57 cases that I have around, loaded or not, have .30-06 headstamps. Never noticed any differences between 'em as far as accuracy or velocity are concerned.

I liked the article, but I prefer the +P designation to the "magnum" designation. At least one other company that I can think of uses "magnum" for high pressure loads, and I think it's confusing. +P is more descriptive.

JV

I've managed to acquire a couple of Brnos over the past few years. These are a couple of the want for a long time rifles. One , a 7 X 57, 21H I used exclusively two seasons ago. This past season I used the 22H, 8 X 57. Although in pretty decent condition I didn't consider them collectibles so had Ralf Martini change the bolt handles to Oberndorf style and install M-70 type safeties (Dakotas) on both of them. They took 2 and 3 deer respectively and the 8 gave me a 170 class typical whitetail along with 2 mule deer bucks this past season. They are both sweet and portable rifles. My Nosler manual provides pretty decent load data for both. I'll be looking for a different bullet for the 8 this year as I think I could get by with a bit less meat loss than the current 170 grain bullet caused. First on the list to try is the 200 NP. The 150 NP worked just fine in the 7.

Stocker,

If you ever get a chance to take pictures of your rifles, I'd sure like to see them. Thanks...Bill.

My experience has been that you don't really need to go to premium bullets with this cartridge,though I'm sure it wouldn't hurt anything if you did.Hornady makes a 195 gr .323 spitzer that I've used to good effect in both 8x57 and 8mm06.
Unfortunately Hornady discontinued their .323 150 gr. RN some years ago.At one time I had several boxes of those and they were extremely accurate out of several model 98 sporters.Worked very well on white tails too.It was a delight to shoot in either of two sporterized Persian Mauser carbines I own.

I am probably responsible.

The Mouser

http://my.voyager.net/3E/34/jhecksel/Mouser.htm

http://my.voyager.net/3E/34/jhecksel/pictures/Mouser/WheelerDealer.jpg

http://my.voyager.net/3E/34/jhecksel/pictures/Mouser/Edwmouser.jpg

steve1: Probably not as far as killing deer goes. The 170 Hornadys I used caused severe blood shotting of the meat throughout the shoulders from rib/lung hits and am hoping to reduce that a bit. Also will be carrying the rifle for moose and elk in grizzly habitat so think I may be better served overall with a different bullet. Unless another wanted for a long time rifle should come along before next season. Gotta keep my options open, you see.

Funny story!

I like the 8x57, took a deer with one at 175 yds a few years ago.

I like it!

Stocker, I shoot the 200gr NP in mine and while it maybe overkill it always expands nicely up front and is very accurate out of my JP Sauer. Start at 46.5 gr of H4350 and work up. Mine runs 2650 at 50.0gr but if you get to 2575 or so with good accuracy the animals will never know and your rifle may love you.

Scott

Stocker,
Can't speak to the 170,I've only ever even loaded ten or twelve of them.I suspect it may be a softer bullet though,as that's the typical weight for the classically underloaded commercial 8mms.The longest shot I've ever taken at a deer was a one shot kill on a large doe at just over 400 yds. along a power line,with the Hornady 150 RN.Excellent performance,not excessive damage.Same same on a number of deer much closer in.Every deer I've ever shot or seen shot with the Hornady 195 Spire point or the commercial 196 was a pass through,regardless of range,and not excessive meat damage.
I killed a very large northern Alberta whitetail with the 195 out of my 8mm06 at just under 100 yds,he was 300 + pounds,DRT. Based on that performance,I wouldn't be overly skittish on taking on an elk with it .That being said,there's nothing wrong with going with premium bullets at any time,as I stated originally.You just might find yourself pleasantly surprised by those 8mm 195-196 gr. bullets in max loads.An 8mm06 with a 195 is not much different than a 338/06 with a 200 or so grain bullet,and few think twice about that for Elk.A heavilly loaded 8x57 with one of those bullets out to 300 yds or a bit less wouldn't scare me,as long as I had practiced enough to be sure of the trajectory.....I'd be downright confident out to about 250 yds.based on my experience.

For the case capacity question, one needs to remember that the same pressure on a larger surface area equals more speed. This is the majority reason for why the 8x57 will push 200 and 220's as fast and faster than the .30-06. Powder exansion ratios and burn rates too. The .30x57 would be slightly slower in all bullet weights and the 8mm-06 should be slightly faster.

Mr. Faucett's graph shows this result for modern CIP 8x57 and .30-06 loadings.