Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire High Fenced Hunting

Had a buddy in Texas that had a little over 100 acres about 40 miles from the Mexico border. It was your typical Texas hunting , elevated blinds and feeders, though that was truly the only way to gun hunt this land, the cedars were thich as were all the chhit that stings and sticks you. He had used this land for about 15 years as a family hunting location. He had state land on a short sie of his property and then 3 other chunks of private land around him. In a period of 2 years the other 3 private land owners gobbled up a bunch of small ranches like his and ended up high fencing it and bringing in exotics. They literally cut my buddy off from the game, he had one fence line about 200 yards long and that was all he had to allow game on to his property. That chit right there is a perfect example of the entitlement of private land owners to high fence their properties and then cry that its their right. Then if you dont support them they give the bullchit guilt trip that hunters must support hunters, when they could truly give a [bleep] about you , and ultimately only give a chit about themselves and the game that resides within their high fences.

Slipper slope my friends. The term "sport hunting" has gone recent changes. Until just recently it referred to people who hunted that were not in it as market hunters. Many "sports" hunters of the past including many who often referred to as the founders of the modern conservation movement, management movement etc..enjoyed such tacts as "jacklighting", hunting over bait etc...

It's very social and regionally related. What to you may be the most inappropriate means of hunting is the preferred method in another and vice versa.

Having a background in wildlife management I ran into it all the time.

In one region hunting with dogs is/was the preferred method of hunting whitetail on large tracts of land especially hardwood bottoms. To them anyone who would surround a 50 acre patch of woods surrounded by field with 15 guys and push deer out was the epitome of unsportsmanlike conduct. I'm sure the same guys who push deer out of small pockets on a regular basis would never hunt with a dog.

I can tell you this. For whitetail in almost all the areas it's found today you are not going to get more restrictive harvest methods/seasons any time soon.

In fact many biologist here have lobbied for year round seasons (it's already open 6 months out of the year if you have a management plan in place) to reduce the numbers of deer. That's why there hasn't been major backlash to modern muzzleloaders in primitive seasons, advanced bows etc...without these we would be swarming with deer as we almost are already.

Just like states that have no Sunday hunting. There's no biological reason for such other than a social and regional acceptance.

Hunting has always been and will be about access. Texas has the most pro-private landowner rules in the nation. Mostly because we are pro individual. The majority of our private land was purchased from private citizens such as 4 national forest were purchased out of worn out cotton fields in the 30's and replanted. There's a reason usage on those areas are incredibly low. Because they aren't managed for crap and the hunting there is subpar as opposed to a private lease.

Texas is borderline "it's not public game" and they're right. Unless it's located on public land it's not. The public isn't paying for the management on private land, the improvements, the wildlife surveys, the management plans, the water structures built etc...to imrove wildlife. They do that on public land...and that's why hardly anyone hunts on public land here even when it's available.

If leases haven't hit your area get ready for it. Either lease your own, buy your own, or become very very buddy buddy with a landowner. There's no stopping the course now. Hunting is an income producer for landowers and I'm happy for that.

If you want to hunt public land or land you can get free access to knock yourself out. Personally I don't care either way. To think you were going to get access to hunt some of the land that's now high fenced is ridiculous. You couldn't afford it before it was high fenced and you can't do it now.

Of all the ranches I've worked with and/or been on that were high fenced only one had people outside the family who were ever able to hunt on it. That was a company who entertains company clients on it's 64,000 acres.

I don't see why if you don't like it in your state you have to gripe about it in our state? I find it ridiciulous that some states outlaw hunting on Sunday, or only allow shotguns etc...yet I'm not ready to gripe about it.

That's what's so great about the US. Each state is different. If you like the way your state runs it's wildlife department more power to you. If not start hunting in another state.

Just like I don't want to tell people what their state can do regarding various subjects I don't want people telling us what we can do within our own law here.

Sounds like a lot of liberal talk on here.

That's been the "law" in Texas forever. Don't cry foul because your buddy got caught flat footed. If he wants to be able to buy land where no high fencing is allowed he should buy in another state. Too late to gripe about it now.

Most high fencing in Texas is not 4 sided. It's exactly as you described. Someone owns a fair chunk of land and someone next to them subdivides it off into tiny chunks and each person who owns a tiny piece thinks they have the right to kill as many deer as the large chunk they bought it from did each year. Do the math. So people build a high fence to cut them off.

Yet if their "old" neighbors suddenly subdive their property they get all bitchy and sell out because all the "big deer have been shot out now". It's the double edge sword of tragedy of the commons. I want to live off the fat of your land but once their neighbor stops producing it suddenly isn't fair.

Deal with it or move on.

There are plenty of states that don't allow high fencing. Just as I wouldn't live in California for a variety of reasons if he doesn't like the game laws here don't let the door hit him in the ass on the way out.

I've never hunted high fence and likely never will. But I'm not going to say it's the most evil thing in the world and everyone knows the rules here. It's not like they changed recently....

A lot of people gripe and moan about TP&W but a whole lot of people come down here to hunt each year a variety of species both low and high fence (It's a $2 billion industry yearly) and we have a hunting season that last 5-6 months depending on where you are.......

Few people even know what the law is in Texas. You can fence your property but you have to abide by the same rules and regulations for hunting as anyone else. You can apply with a mangement plan for special season dates/extra tags JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE even if they are low fenced.

OR you can high fence and have a survey done and pay the state for the lost wildlife and then it becomes a breeding/ranching facility and there are fees/licenses associated with that.

I'll point to a familar story. In Georgia the man who bankrolled North American Whitetail magazine high fenced approximately 600 acres for research. First they wanted to eliminate the deer from the enclosure. They got all the necessary permits and regulations with the state.

The first year they just hunted hard. Then they did camera runs and track counts and still had deer.

So the second year they brought locals in with dogs to kill the deer who thought it would be "so easy". After that season they did camera runs and track counts again. Still had deer.

Ater three years they eventually called it "good" enough even tho they still had some native deer that they couldn't get even with feeders and a spotlight.

Just food for thought on how tough deer are when pressured.

Great post! Public land hunting on those Type II (permit for $40 or so required, over 1 million acres available) areas in Texas are downright dangerous and there are no restrictions on who goes or when you go.....no tags, no check in stations except to fill out a form on a few of them that prove you went.

It is the lowest form of hunting with the least success rate anywhere in the state.....however, a kid can be taught fundementals of hunting, camping, comraderie, etc. And that's a plus to me. Cheap entertainment, but don't expect to see much game.

Actually the AHP (what used to be TypeII) isn't bad at all now. In fact my land borders 11,000 acres of it. Of course I have a good chunk of it because the access to it is limited on my side because I don't allow access thru my land to the public.

But National Forest land is the real danger (I used to work for the US Forest Service). Usuage is non existent except for a few dozen people a year who come up from Houston to hunt one day a year. I can't count the number of poeple who I ran into while working who asked the dumbest questions...like what's the difference between an antlered and antleress deer....and stuff like that pretty often.

We've actually got decent deer on the Type II now with the new antler restrcitions. I've seen several deer over 140" in the last 2 years come off of them. Last year I killed a 130" whitetail on a Type II area with my bow so they are definetly out there and for $40 ain't bad. If you skip opening weekend you likely will never see another hunter.

Now that Temple Inland has sold all of it's land holdings in Texas - they were the largest landowner in Texas (the company that the state leased most of the Type II from) I don't know how much longer it will continue in it's current form.

The draw hunts in Texas on WMA's are where the big bucks are. I know of 2 - 200" deer taken in the last few years for the price of $3 application fee and $100 hunt fee with a 95% or greater draw rate if you bow hunt. Personally I have camera pics of several deer over 150" (and a wierd note they all are non typical and off the same configuration). This isn't South Texas either....

People complain about public use land in Texas. WE DON'T HAVE ANY. It goes back to the founding of our state as a country then as a state.

How many of your home states LEASE over 1 MILLION acres of land so that you can hunt on it year round for a $40 fee? Some of the land enrolled is allowed access for free (especially the dove hunting areas) but most are timber company lands that the state leases in agreements and for a $40 fee you can hunt on any of them many species from big game to waterfowl (in fact the waterfowl hunting on a lot of it is the best in the state).

To me that's pretty impressive.

Nathan, don't forget to tell them WHY the best type II "is what it is". Bowhunting only!

More than anything else I worry about folks that put restrictions on others when its not against the law..It has a liberal smell, you know "My way or the Obama Highway"....

The other thing is the purest when offered a freeby on a fenced land hunt will jump on it 99% of the time..

The only folks that bother me are those that do and deny it.

The areas we've hunted on Type II (yes, we did for years) bordered around Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend lakes....and one near Lufkin. Beautiful hardwood bottoms mixed with pine thickets. But, the traffic was unbelieveable! No management plan at all....no does during rifle season.

I would entertain archery only were I to hunt Type II again.

Type II isn't bowhunting only. Some of it is. None in this county is bowhunting only. I would guess that less than 5% is bowhunting only. In fact the only area that I know is bowhunting only is the deal with the nature conservatory - their land their rules.

I could rifle hunt on the 11,000 acres that adjoin the land next to me but I don't rifle hunt. In our county there's over 35,000 acres total in several sections (outside the NF) and none are bowhunting only.

I'm not real familiar with the areas closer to Beaumont/Houston.

The areas where the 2 200" non typicals came from is open to bowhunters and rifle hunters on a draw program and bow draw is 95% and gun is over 50%. Meaning you can likely hunt there every other year.

NathanL

I don't think it is liberalism so much as the fact that we see the cost of hunting leases so accepted in Texas spreading into other areas of the country. It is viewed as an affront on the freedom we enjoy hunting public land here in the west.

I want land owners to have the freedom of choice to do as they please with their land but here in Idaho we are beginning to have extremely wealthy outfits come in and "lease" land from farmer/ranchers for hunting rights only. They farmer continues to use his land as he always has but where he once gave permission to hunt he now cannot. To hunt you have to belong to the "club" and pay to hunt where it was once open to any responsible hunter who would ask and receive permission.

I see that at least one of these outfits fences, signs, and improvements are falling in disrepair. Hopefully this is a sign they are in financial trouble and will soon go broke.

We hunters, or at least some of us see this as a an affront to hunting for the ordinary average hunter making it a rich mans game. As you can see this is not seen as a such a good idea to the general public. We even hear what I fear are jealous fools or PETA types calling for "charges" to be implemented to hunt/use public land in states that are over 50% public land.

Everyone that likes to hunt should have the opportunity to without having be wealthy.

You just have to get out a little further. Like I said I rarely see any traffic on the areas especially after opening weekend.

I normally only start hunting Type II until December and by then it's a ghost town.

I literally can't remember the last time I saw someone on it.

Also if your in the hardwood areas many people are hog hunting and they just kind of run amuck so to speak.

But if you want to bowhunt they are open in Bowseason for October and no worry there very limited people out then.

Personally I would hold out for December or late December. By then the crowds are gone and the deer are back to looking for food now that the cold weather has finally hit here.

Season is still open here for management plan areas. Last week a guy just north of me shot a 140" with his bow and he was telling me he saw several bucks with dropped antlers already.

The restrictions on antlers the last 4 years have bumped up the number of "decent" deer lik they are going out of style. The number of 140" deer I saw this year while riding shotgun with game wardens, various big buck checkins and the numbers sent to me was 10x what I saw 5 years ago.

I think Pat may be referring to archery season, the month of October. The drawback to that in East Texas are the squirrel hunters....

October is an awesome month in Texas.

Yes Nathan, I am familiar with them all. Two units in northern Newton County are bowhunting only, and this is THE place to go if you want a P & Y buck, other than the park draws.

Actually, by definition...

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating public or state ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and a society characterized by equal opportunities for all individuals, with a fair or egalitarian method of compensation.

Turkey Creek WMA, too....near Sam

Alabama Creek WMA, also....near Diboll.

I didn't know Turkey Creek was. I was raised hunting there. The Ayish Bayou bottom is my favorite place in the world.

I considered another Type II even closer than my lease, maybe 30 miles north near Huntsville State Park.....absolutely gorgeous hardwood bottom. Got to be a great place to pack a light climbing stand and bow hunt an evening or two.

Magnumdood,

I see you have a Phill Hartsfield Mountain Man Skinner. I have several Hartsfields man are they a cutting machine.

I'd like to go back to the legal aspect of this debate. If Peta or someone other wacko group is trying get rid of high-fenced operations - shouldn't the owners of said operations defense be routed in property rights? I don't see them winning a "hunting rights" fight. Since this is how I interpret it I still don't see how this has anything to do with hunting. If you own land want to to put a fence up - do it. It's your land. If you own land and want to lease it - again, do it. It's your land. If you own land and grant permission for people to hunt on it or don't - it's your land and you can do whatever you choose. How is any of this a hunting issue?

Well, I suppose when you go to enter stuff in the record books it becomes a hunting issue. But other than that - I just don't see it. I must be missing something because some of you are very passionate about this subject and I really don't know what the fight is about. Damn my low IQ!

And so many people think its the antis that are taking away or ruining hunting, when in reality its the hunters that are ruining hunting. Let me rephrase that......its wealthy hunters in many place taking away or ruining hunting from the average American hunter. This free enterprise ideology will eventually price most hunters right out of the game , and then this "we all need to stick together" bullchit wont fly, cuz hunters will be much less diversified and broke too, the way things are going in our economy. The tricky part is that this isn't just going on in places like Texas, but its even stretching very far into the west and even here in Alaska. Like I have said before.......its always about $$$$!