Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Bears and Handguns!!

I have a question for the handgun officianados. I have a question that is mostly opinionated but I am interested in your views and opinions on this subject. I have a 7.5" Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag, I absolutely hate it, and dont shoot it all that well. There are several hunts that I like to do for both black and grizzly bears that are bow only , but like the idea of having a last resort alternative if chit goes sour on me, and the bow doesn't work all that well as a baseball bat!...grin So if a guy was gonna step down from a 44 Mag that you will probably not hit the bear accurately with, what would you step down to? I know there are guides here in Alaska that use 10MM's as backup weapons, but I wonder where calibers like the 40 S&W, 45 ACP, 357 Mag, and 41 Mag settle into all this. I shoot a semi auto pretty well, and clearly understand that a semi-auto might not be as reliable as a revolver in the woods. So fire at me your take and ideas fellas, I'm all ears!

I was first interested in your statement that you "hate it" and it doesn't shoot too well. Playing devil's advocate, I ask: Because you hate it, is this why it doesn't shoot well? Why exactly don't you like about it? The recoil of a double action revolver can be a little rough in full house 44 magnum loads.
Not knowing your reply, I might suggest,
1. Are the grips absorbent? Does it fit you hand?
2. Light loads at close range might be inorder to gain your confidence. Certainly in single action mode first.Then gradually double action with light loads.
3. Sometimes a 4 inch model is more balanced and therefore easier to hit with.

I would not give up on the 44 mag because you take (in my view) a substantial step down moving to the autos and their calibers.
That's all for now.

It has always seemed to me....with, I hasten to add, absolutely no experience to back it up....that since you aren't going to stop a bear with anything but a CNS hit before he's chowing down on your favorite appendages, a tuned accurate .45 auto with 8 round mags loaded with 200 grain FMJ SWCs at 1000 fps would be what I'd want in my hands to try to get a brain or spine hit in the very short time window between being the hunter and being the snack.

I carried my M29 when I was hunting elk in griz country, but that was to shoot myself if the .338 didn't stop the bear.

If I wasn't too busy squirting my previous meal down my leg, I think my best chance to ice a bear would be a .45, and it would certainly penetrate deep enough to do the job. Just my totally uninformed opinion.

Bigger is better, right up to where you start missing. So, the .45 would be first, I had a friend who used a 1911 for bear medicine for years. We are talking about close range, so a heavy bullet wins IMHO over velocity. Haveyou tried .44 specials? It is an inexpensive solution if they do the job.

If I didn't shoot a revolver well, I'd be looking at a Glock 20. Full size 10mm, more smoke than any 45ACP with similar bullet weights, and being that it's a Glock it should be reliable as an autoloader can get. Probably nothing wrong with Steve's suggestion either, I'm just not a gung-ho 1911 guy and I'm bias to .40 cal handguns.

If all else fails, you could get a Desert Eagle in 50AE.

I think any of your alternate calibers would be just fine with an excited Grizz, providing you remember where on your temple to put the muzzle. Seriously I think bear rounds begin with the .44 and work up. If your Redhawk isn't the answer for you look at others. I've used a Super Blackhawk a couple of times on excited blackies, but I have to deffer to others with experience in the Grizz dept. Bigwhoop offers sound advice on choices. Good luck and shoot straight with that bow.

I couldnt shoot my .44 all that well either, than I bought a single six 22, its amazing how accurate the .44's have become now

First off thanks for the replies, here's the deal. I know this is an endless controversial subject, and one often argued by many that have never been in the situation of being charged or attacked by a bear, or even near a bear. I know these things to start my thought process, bears can fight death for a suprisingly large amount of time sometimes, and they move with speed that is very under rated. So with that said, I look at it like this. When I envision a bad situation with a bear, its gonna happen really fast, either because I waited too long to react to the situation while waiting for the bear to behave favorably (most common), or because it suprised me or I suprised it, either after the shot or during the stalk. I only know a few people who have been mauled by a bear , and in both cases they ended up on their back looking up at a bear, one of them had just been shot by a 340 Roy with 250 NP's twice. So the reason I ask about the semi autos is simply for their ability to be used in a more diverse situation (ie on your back one handed, or standing and aiming). I cant accurately shoot that big Ruger with one hand, but I can shoot a semi auto with one hand. I believe that if the Ruger were any shorter hence lighter, the recoil would only be worse. I had a Titanium 41 mag some years ago that had the most wrist jarring snap to it that also was no fun to shoot, so I think lighter/shorter is not the answer. Anyway I am interested to hear what others have to say on this subject.

I hear ya Tom, I have a Single Six and enjoy shooting it quite a bit, but it doesn't change how I feel about the 44!...grin As a matter of fact I spent a couple hours at the range today shooting 3 different handguns of mine that I hadn't shot in a while and then ended up at Sportsmans Warehouse looking at 40's and 45's!

A 44 mag with 300 or 300+ grain wide flat point hard cast will get the job done. A 45 Colt or 454 with 325 grain or heavier wide flat point hard cast is better and the 475 and 500 Linebaugh or JRH are better yet.

I do have some experience with revolvers and hard cast bullets on Bears

AC

When the chips are down, I want my S&W 29. I shoot it better than any other .44 mag and with the 250 hard cast or 260 Nosler it will do the job. If you want heavier, go for it, but pushing the envelope in velocity doesn't get you much in your scenario.

I've got a Power Custom SRH that is sweet, but it's not an everyday carry gun for "just in case" like the S&W is.

.45ACP doesn't trip my trigger for big bears, but, heck, I never tried it - nor do I intend to.

A 10mm might be okay, but .44 is where it really starts. YMMV

Find a hunting partner that runs slower than you AC... problem solved.

Seriously, I'd look at a good .357. damn good handgun with good bullets. I just dont like semi-autos in hunting conditions. I dont trust them and never will.

A .41 would be next on my list but if up north is like down here, it would be a pain to find bullets.

Find yourself a good 686 and dont look back.

Oh and if you are looking at one of those semi auto thingamajigs. Sig makes a beautiful gun. I've carried a G23 for a while. after shooting my wifes P229 (40S&W), the glock is gone. it is a real fine handgun.

Get what you are comfortable using, but if you are worried about being on your back with a big bear on top of you, a 4-in. or less, double-action revolver with a caliber of .4x would be a good baseline w/a hard bullet doing about 1,000 fps.

A single-action revolver is fine for hunting, but cocking it might be problematic in a fight on the ground.

I've never fought a bear but have been in a pile wrestling armed feral humans and seen SIG and Glock pistols knocked out of battery at contact distance.

Your accuracy should be fine at contact distance with a handgun that will cycle.

Or perhaps layer your BUGs: a G20 with hot loads then a Magnum snubby you can access with either hand on the ground.

Here is probably one of the more all encompassing and definitive posts on this subject of bears and handguns by someone who went there and did that a lot.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...&topic=0&Search=true#Post1498247

See post # 1498247 if the link doesn't go right to it.

Hope this helps to answer your question.

Big difference between bears in GA where I live and Alaska but I carry a Glock 20 in 10mm. With the hottest loads it is a bit more powerful than 357 mag and holds 16 rounds. In my experience they are at least as reliable as a revolver and smaller, and lighter to boot. For hunting I would pick a big bore revolver because at distance I shoot them more accurately. But for closer range rapid fire I am more accurate with my Glocks.

I used to carry a handgun a lot during the summer here in unit 13. The best for me was a S&W M629 Trail Boss with 300 Hardcast or a 1911 modified for 45 Super (I developed a load with 275gr FP @ 1,000 fps). Overall, the short light 44 was the best choice. If you're worried about distances like you describe (bad-breath), you won't need to shoot the revolver very well, you'll just need to be able to shoot it. An auto at that distance is more likely to be disabled due coming out of battery from contact.

My advice would be to stay with the RH or get a M629 Mountain Gun, Trail Boss or M329, any of them with good Pachmyer, etc. rubber grips.

Practice with 44 Spl. and if possible, handload bear rounds to your specs. You can always load the 44 to perform as well as a 10mm, 45 Super, etc., and better if you want.

AlaskaCub -

I think going down in "power" is a mistake. If you don't shoot your .44 magnum well, find something else and practice, practice, practice. Keep carrying your .44 magnum. It may take a few years, but if you're dedicated you'll get there.

.44 mag itself is a compromise. It's not "really" adequate, but it's what we have. Doesn't concern me with the run of the mill sub 250 pound black bears I run into fishing along the river. When I start running into the bigger (but fewer) ones feeding up on the hill, I start wondering if I'm kidding myself.

I don't shoot DA .44s very well. For my hands, the Redhawk is the least bad, but I don't shoot it anywhere near as well as I do a single action. I'd rather get one good hit with a Super Blackhawk than a bunch of marginal hits with a double action gun.

Another thought, if it's a recoil issue, is magnaporting. Also, Redhawk's have a funky mechanism, potentially a really slick DA pull compared to S&W and others but they'll never have a truly great SA pull. If you're mostly shooting SA, switch to DA ... I found with my last Redhawk, I shot better offhand in DA mode ... never had that happen before.

You might possibly switch over to .45 Colt. In the right gun (blackhawk, redhawk) it'll develop the same "power" as a .44 mag but at lower pressure so your ears take less of a beating which in turn seems to be perceived as less recoil even if the gun doesn't buck any less. Good hard cast bullet, one of the 300 grain jacketed bullets, or either partition. That's one advantage of the .45 over .44 ... the heavier 300 grain .45 partition. In .41 I don't think there are truly suitable jacketed bullets for bigger bears. They're all "soft" to expand on deer sized critters. Hard cast.

I like to shoot the Redhawk, relative to other DA .44s. I'm not that fond of the Redhawk as a carry gun. That's about as heavy a .44 mag as you can find. I'd rather have something with less weight, I'll live with the additional recoil. Not sure I'd go clear down to the Smith 329 PD (though it is on my mental wish list as a stout .44 special), but maybe something a little lighter.

Disorganized ... rambling ... sorry.

Tom

A 4" .44 mag revolver with hardcast WFN's or HP's at about 1200 from the 4" barrel, not book velocities, is where I settled for a pack gun. The 4" Taurus .44 tracker, the 4" 629, or the 4" regular not super Redhawk are reasonable weight and recoil wise with this style load. It also falls in line with what JJ Hack said and with what an Alaska State Trooper I know who has had to shoot bears advised me.

I hope I never have to find out.

Thanks for the insight fellas, I think I am gonna spend some more time with the Redhawk before I give up on it. It shoots tight little groups off the bench at 25 yards, its the multiple DA performance off the bench that I am not satisfied with. Can only imagine more practise will help that. We have shot black bears with 44's off of baits more than once and they went about the same distance that they do with a bow or a gun so I know they kill well. Maybe I'll take a black from the ground on a bait this year with it just for chits and grins!