Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .357 vs 10MM

hey barkoff:
how about a 230 grain completely flat metplate .357magnum doing about 900fps? I think that by par puts into the relm of some of these other pistola rounds guys are talking about.
http://www.pennbullets.com/38/38-caliber.html

Save for the fact that it is missing one of the most important features: DIAMETER. It's only a .357 no matter how fast you push it.

Well it's not that I have a problem with the .357 caliber, only that the .357 I own is kind of long, big and pristine. The other reason for buying a semi-auto is to purchase one more before the 2010 bullschitt CA imprinting law goes into effect.

Absolutely. The .357 stands tall than it really is becuase of hollow point ammunition. It will penetrate right along side the big boys if you want it to, but you will give up penetration with a big hole. That's what you get with a cast .357...penetration is excellent, but it's a small hole.

Amen to that!

What law is that? Are they going to stash fired cases from every new pistol, or something?

My Glock came with 2 fired cases in a sealed envelope for just that reason (I guess). I tore it open, for the brass, only to find out they were aluminum cases!

Ballistic Fingerprinting � Gun dealers or manufacturers must provide police with sample bullets/cartridges or digital images of bullets/cartridges prior to the sale of a handgun. This is not required in California, fortunately. In another article by John Lott (National Review Online, �Ballistic Fingerprinting�s a Dud, Another failed gun-control strategy�, February 04, 2005), Professor Lott points out, �New York is spending $4 million per year. Maryland has spent a total of $2.6 million, about $60 per gun sold. But in the over four years that the systems have been in effect neither has solved a single crime.�

Microstamping - This is a new technology that is not in commercial use today. Basically a unique serial number is engraved in the firing pin of each pistol. This serial number is then imprinted on the primer of the bullet casing, or in some instances on the cartridge, when the gun is fired. Unfortunately, California has already passed a law requiring use of the technology by all manufacturers who sell firearms in California. This new law will go into effect in 2010.

It is surprising (or not since the Brady Campaign rates California best) this law passed when the technology was tested by the University of California, Davis, and found lacking. Their original press release on May 3, 2007, was titled (emphasis added) Microstamping Guns Feasible but Flawed, Study Finds. The first paragraph stated (emphasis added):

�New technology to link cartridge cases to guns by engraving microscopic codes on the firing pin is feasible, but does not work well for all guns and ammunition tested in a pilot study by researchers from the forensic science program at UC Davis. More testing in a wider range of firearms is needed to determine the costs and feasibility of a statewide program of microstamping, as called for by proposed state legislation, the researchers said.�

Sounds like microstamping is not ready to me.

Their press release was updated on May 13; new title: �Firearms Microstamping Feasible but Variable, Study Finds�. And the first paragraph says (emphasis added):

�New technology to link cartridge cases to guns by engraving microscopic codes on the firing pin is feasible, but did not work equally well for all guns and ammunition tested in a pilot study by researchers from the forensic science program at the University of California, Davis. More testing in a wider range of firearms is needed, the researchers said.�

So they softened their position. /sarcasm mode on/ I am sure it was not because they were funded by a California Congressional Committee who wanted to pass the law to require the use of the technology /sarcasm mode off/. Still sounds like microstamping is not ready to me.

In addition, there are major flaws in the use of this as evidence. Spent cartridges are often left at a range, a criminal could collect these and leave them at a crime scene to divert suspicion. The microstamps on firing pins can be easily removed with a nail file. Firing pins can be exchanged easily. Given the expensive failure of ballistic fingerprinting should we add another layer of useless expense?

Owner-Authorized Handguns � Two states, Massachusetts and California, have passed laws to require all newly manufactured or imported handguns to be �owner-authorized� or personalized in a way that would allow them to be fired only by authorized persons. Essentially this would be a biometric recognition device built into the handgun to limit only the owner to shooting the weapon. Clearly the author of this POS legislation watched the movie �Judge Dredd� too many times. This is currently handgun science fiction.

Both states recognize this is yet-to-be-developed technology and currently requires the Attorney General to monitor and report on the progress in the technology with an eye to pre-authorize a mandate to use it immediately upon availability. Aside from the fact of venturing into pre-legislating �future� laws, the technology itself is silly today. Biometrics for computers and security devices are still largely experimental and can be circumvented.

Just as a reminder, the USAF issued M10s and Speed Sixes, both in .38 Special, in the not too distant past. I have the TM that covers both.

I think much of the problems encountered with Keith bullets (Lyman 358429) in .357 is commercial cast bullets that are way too hard. If an alloy closer to 20 to 1 is used, about 50/50 clip-on to stick-on wheel weights, the results are much more favorable. When it's loaded to Elmer's specs, 15.0 gr of 2400 in Mag brass, it clocks at about 1420 fps MV. That's seated deep for a M28-2's short cylinder.

We don't have very may bears in East Texas, but we do have a goodly population of feral hogs. I was talking to a local recently and his preference for hogs runs along the lines of a .22 LR. If he's real serious, he uses a .22 Mag!

I shot this hog at 40 yards in my front yard and used one 00 buckshot to do the job.



It doesn't take nearly as much to kill a hog as what people think.

Depends on the hog. The only shot that will guarantee a drop on the spot is a CNS hit (like every animal), but they are a lot denser in construction than a deer. I have had them fatally wounded (shredded heart), and they still managed to run off 100 yards or so. So, shoot 'em in the head or spine and it's lights out. Shoot 'em in the boiler room, and all bets are off when the animal will give up the ghost.

The one in the picture has hit way too far back, since it was 11:30 at night when I shot him. I could only see three hits and none of them exited. He ran about 30 yards and expired where you see him. As you can see, by comparing him to the Yamaha Timberwolf, it's about a 200-250 pound hog.

A feral hog isn't exactly the same thing as a Russian cross, but they still aren't as hard to kill as what people let on. In fact, if you leave them in a trap for a day or so, they'll die on their own. Like this one.



I think the little ones could be killed with a BB gun, but we used a .357, .30-30 (both with cast bullets) and a 100 gr .243 loaded down to 2200 fps on these.