Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints 220 swift

i have recently purchased a remington 700 220 swift. after a brief love affair with one when i was a kid, now i have one of my own. looking to put some optics on it though. i have a 3-9x50 on it now that i had lying around until i could make up my mind. any opinions on that or anything else about the swift?

I have two swifts, both 700's, one Classic and one VSSF. Both shoot around .5" with the right loads after bedding, triggers reworked, etc. I would want more magnification than 9x for my use of these rifles. Both of mine have scopes that go at least to 16x.
The swift is the king of the .22's if you handload, if you're limited to factory loads, you'll be very handicapped! I prefer 55 grain bullets over IMR 4064 or H380.
If you load, you need to pay close attention to brass flowing into the case necks. This can cause inaccuracy and pressure problems.
Good luck and post your results!
1D

I think the important information you must address is, what kind of hunting/shooting with be done with the rifle? At what ranges will shots be taken? Are long, open field shots in the scenario? The scope isn't related to the rifle as much as it is to shooting conditions/terrain, etc.

Don

I Love the .220 Swift. I wish I had both of mine back. Both were Rugers, but there is just something about that cartridge that makes it the berries to me.

I know that the .22-250 will do most of what it will do, and that brass for the .22-250 is cheaper than brass for the swift.

Very classy cartridge, the swift. It may have more horsepower than I really need, but it seems like the corvette of the .22 centerfires to my way of thinking.

Good luck with your scope choice, If I remember correctly, I had a 6-18x Vari X II on my heavy barreled swift, and a Vari X I
4-12x on my sporter weight barrel.

Both were loads of fun, and I kick myself everytime I think about letting them go.

Greggohrc: I am currently running 6 Varminters in caliber 220 Swift. The lowest scope power I have on any of them is a Weaver 4x16 variable.
And I plan on up-powering that scope as soon as I can afford to do so. The rest of my Swifts all have variable scopes on them with top end powers of 20X or 24X!
The Swift is capable of very good accuracy and rather long range hits!
Using a 3x9 scope on a Swift is like putting a 60 M.P.H. "governor" on a Ferrari!
You can do it - but why?
You did not mention if you are a handloader or for what you intend to use your Swift for - so I am basing my observations and opinions on "my" Swift useages.
I have used several of my Swifts with the high power variables for night spotlight Hunting - the scopes were turned down to their lowest powers for this application.
I would rather leave a Swift Rifle "scopeless" than mount anything less than a 4x12 variable on it.
Put the Swift's performance to full useage - beg, borrow or steal a more powerful scope to accompany it.
I use my Swifts for long range Colony Varmint Hunting and Coyote Hunting. I have also harvested Antelope with the 220 Swift cartridge.
Also this - keep an eye on the brass for over all length!
The Swift brass needs to be trimmed often.
Best of luck with the Remington Swift!
Long live the 220 Swift.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Depends on the application. I like more magnification, my Swifts always wore a Leupold 6.5-20X which I had before I bought the first one. A really good 3-9X has some flexibility, if you're more likely to try to get on rabbits in the sage and less likely to try to snipe rodents out 500 yards, then a 3-9X might be pretty ideal.

For loads, I used WW brass and moly coated some 50 grain ballistic tips. 2 of my 3 swifts never did shoot well with anything over 50 grains. The first was the best, it lived on 43.5 grains of H380. FWIW, it did not shoot well with virgin brass, 2 to 2.5 MOA, but that same load in fired cases was half MOA. The last gun was a rebarrel. I got a little carried away with "heavy" and built one with the balance point forward of the front sling swivel. A mite hard to keep on bags, you might guess. It had a very tight bore and gave me all kinds of pressure problems, blown primers with starting loads, etc. It finally settled down with 44 grains of IMR 4831 under a 55 grain ballistic tip. I couldn't deal with the balance point on the outfit, but no arguing with how it shot that load. On my final target before taking it to the store to consign, one push-pin fell out. I shot the last 3 out with 3 shots at 200 yards.

The swift has some twitches, the cases grow an require a lot of trimming, but when it's working, it's WORKING. IMHO it stops the hell out of a .22-250 ... and I've had a number of .22-250s I like, too.

On thing I'd suggest ... if you're going after predators, load the magazine one cartridge short of full. I had that semi-rim get tangled up a time or two and decide to jam in the magazine rather than feed. I lost both a coyote and a bobcat within 10 seconds one time 'cause my gun jammed up. First shot I missed, couldn't get a 2nd on the coyote, and within a couple seconds a bobcat I hadn't even seen up and bailed on me. Argh!!

Tom

Greg,
When I first bought my 220 Swift money was pretty tight and I found a used Weaver 12X Target scope. That worked very well.
After my finances looked better I broke down and stimulated the economy with a 6.5-20X Leupold with Target Knobs. They rarely get used because they just aren't needed with this cartridge in a prairie dog town when the action is fast and furious.
I never saw any difference in accuracy with the bigger scope although it comes in handy as a spotting scope.
Try IMR 4064 and some Nosler 55 gr Ballistic Tips.

Whelennut: I don't want to steal the thread here but your contention that a shooter "won't see any difference in accuracy from a 12X scope to a 20X scope" has to be corrected.
IF your contention WERE TRUE then our friends the bench rest shooters would only be using 12X scopes! And NOT the expensive 45 power scopes that most all of them DO use nowadays!
Its a simple and irrefutable fact that the more scope power a Rifle has strapped on its back the better it will shoot - accuracy results wise!
If your experience is that you can shoot as accurately with a 12 power scope on a particular Rifle as you can with a 20 power scope then I suggest you are using improper technique or shooting in windy conditions only!
On a calm day with a 20 power scope - no matter what your other equipment may be - you should shoot the same Rifle noticeably better than when that Rifle had a 12 power scope on it!
Again, this is just an irrefutable fact of shooting life!
Otherwise the BR types would be using 12 power OR just 4 power scopes!
I remember when the Leupold scope company first came out with their fine 6.5x20 variable scopes. I bought one and replaced the Leupold 12 power scope on my Remington 40X in 6mm Remington.
Instantly that Rifle began shooting BETTER - it was more accurate with more scope power!
I was so impressed with the upgrade in power of the scope that I began replacing my other lower powered scopes with the Leupold 6.5x20's.
I am clearly puzzled why YOU don't notice "any difference in accuracy" when more scope power is added?
I have also proven to myself this corollary "rule" when I (on rare occassions) diminish scope power on a particular Rifle!
The accuracy also diminshes.
One of the last "switches" of this type I made was on an exceptionally accurate Kimber Ultra-Varmint Rifle in caliber 221 Remington Fireball. I had a Leupold 6.5x20 variable on it for many years then I "needed" that scope for a new 22-250 Swift Varminter I bought and the little Kimber got a straight Leupold 12 power for its optic.
Yep - the accuracy did noticeably diminish on that nifty little Rifle!
I don't think people buy scopes of higher power to use as "spotting scopes" - although that can be done! They buy higher powered scopes to enhance a Rifles accuracy (shoot farther - shoot smaller groups - shoot more accurately)!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Take a hard look at the Bushnell 6500 line of scopes, have a wide range of adjustment and reportedly good optics. One scope actually goes to 30X.

http://www.bushnell.com/general/riflescopes_elite6500.cfm?section=General%20Use

thanks for the input. I am planning to hand load that. i have been warned plenty about case trimming, thanks for the heads up. things i did not know. i have heard to load the rounds to shoot in the 3800 fps range for best results, any truth to that or do you want to speed it up to perform it its potential. i know the factory barrel is slow twisted. i am planning on at least 25x magnification if not 32x. i hope to shoot mostly p-dogs with it and sometime yotes. i shoot p-dogs mostly in the flat plains areas east of the mountains where i live. 300 to 500 yards for those, some closer. the yote hunting would be hilly terrain with shots normally 300 or so. what about illuminated scopes? seems to be some hype to those right now.

p.s. the rifle did shoot nickel sized groups at 200 out of the box. bore sighted and shot a six rounds at 50, dialed it down and shot great groups within the first box.

just to add my 2 cents,
I have shot the 220 swift longer than any other rifle cartridge (save the 22lr) pushing 3 decades.
It is very unique in the fact that there is no magic formula like there is for other rounds like say the 6PPC. if you have a 6PPC and you try VVN133 about 90%+ of shooters will find a magic load.
With the 220Swift you have to tinker with different powder's to find what your barrel likes. some like IMR4064,H414,IMR4831,RL15,VVN150 or 160etc.
The barrel I have now prefers Win760 (a batch made before Win760 and H414 were the same thing).
One word of caution I have found is to stay away from H380 in the swift, it is great in the 22-250 but seems to be ultra-temp sensitive in the Swift (I know other's recommend it but to me it is just dangerous).
One other tip I have found very useful is to use Norma brass if you can afford it, the necks dont thicken or grow as fast as using Winchester brass and the primer pockets stay snug longer.
B

thanks for the tips. what advice do you have on primers? any brand or differences noted in your expierence. i have been shooting factory loads and i noted the difference between the win and the fed ammo in accuracy, the win seems much better for my gun. what projectiles to you use for p-dog shooting, any that you stay away from in your expierience. thanks again for the advise

VarmintGuy,
Years ago I read an article in the American Rifleman magazine the author tested different scopes and concluded that while accuracy was better with more magnification, the law of diminishing returns snuck in around 10X.
You sound like a scope salesman to me!
If you look at the picture you will see that I am shooting live targets not benchrest!
Benchrest shooters use different bullets than I do and do not use out of the box Ruger rifles, at least I have never seen one at a match yet.
I think the quality of the barrel, and the trigger, and the bullets, are varables that cannot be ignored. You will not see greater accuracy just because you mount a big scope on a rifle.

For years my go to varmint rig was a 14lb Model 70 in 25-06 shooting Hornady or Sierra hunting bullets (not match) with a Redfield 8X with a dot reticle. I could hold 1/2" groups all day long with this rifle/scope combo. It was always a hunting rifle and was never intended to be a benchrest rifle.

My Ruger is out of the box and shoots hunting bullets, not match bullets into 3/4" groups either handloads or factory loads.
It did this with a bipod or sandbags. Either the Weaver 12X or the shiny new Leupold gave me the same results.

I shoot from a mat on the ground "prone position", not from a bench.
Conditions in South Dakota can be windy and usually are around 20-40mph.

Benchrest is done at a fixed range of 200 yds, whereas my hunting is done at 50-500 yds. Range estimation on a moving target is difficult and wind estimation when shooting in a 360 degree situation like a prairie dog town can be very challenging.
These conditions are the same for shooters no matter if they use a scope or iron sights.
I have been doing this since 1978 so I resent being "corrected"
however I respect your opinions, I just have different experiences than you.
Target shooting is like drag racing, in that cubic dollars usually win!
Hunting is for recreation for most of us. Use whatever makes you smile!

whelennut

Whelennut: I could care less if you resent being corrected!
When you make a mistake in a public place (forum) then you will on occassion, be "corrected"!
Yeah in a past life I was an F.F.L. type and sold many hundreds of scopes.
Indeed there is a ratio regarding accuracy and scope power - but you misread or mis-remembered the American Rifleman magazine article - otherwise AGAIN there Whelennut the Bench Rest Competitors would only be using "10X" scopes like your un-named long ago auther alludes to.
And here comes your correction - YES, indeed you will achieve better accuracy in a particular Rifle by "mounting a big scope on it" - and by "big scope" like you mention I am assuming YOU MEANT to say MORE POWERFUL scope.
At least that is what I assume you are talking about and not the physical size of a scope.
You are wavering off into all manner of tangental issues about how YOU shoot - and I have my worries about them - BUT I am correcting you regarding the Rifles ability to be more accurate with more scope power attached.
Its quite simple and quite irrefutable Whelennut!
Otherwise the 1,000 yard competitors and the 100, 200 and 300 yard bench rest competitors would be using 12X scopes or 10X scopes like your un-named author advocates - and we both know they are NOT using these lower powered scopes!
There, then, must be a reason to purchase these "more powerful" scopes!
I know the reason.
You apparently don't.
So I will gladly tell you!
These fellows that spend enormous amounts of money, time and effort want to attain the maximum amount of accuracy they can from their Rifles so they buy the more powerful scopes to do so!
You could do the same thing but you are choosing to ignore the obvious - ignorance and taking off on tangents does not refute anything.
Nothing you have mentioned, and I mean NOTHING has any bearing on a more powerful scope allowing a particular Rifle to be more accurate!
Not wind, not ranges, not the bullets you use not what state you live in, not what your target is or looks like, nor what brand name is on your Rifle - NONE of those things have ANY bearing what so ever on you needing to be corrected.
Those things are Red Herrings you are espousing.
And even if I was a "scope salesman" that would have NO bearing on your incorrect assumption regarding Rifle accuracy!
And even the fact that I have been seeking Rifle accuracy a lot longer than you have, has no bearing on your incorrect assumption!
You simply can not ignore facts and reality and very often come up with correct observations.
This is an example of that!
I DO use on my Rifles, "what makes me smile" - many of my Rifles have 36 power, 25 power, 24 power, 20 power and 18 power scopes on them! I smile while using them because I know with more scope power on a Rifle it will shoot more accurately!
Why else would the manufacture of high power scopes exist at all?
Sheesh, Whelennut!
Answer me that - why do scope manufacturers make higher powered scopes?
If you want to use lower powered scopes by all means do so - but don't expect anyone to go along with your basic error where in you feel you can achieve all the accuracy from your Rifle that is attainable with the lower powered scope - because you can't.
A higher powered scope will aid you in achieveing a higher level of accuracy!
Period.
Correction achieved!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I knew you were a scope salesman! Which Walmart did you work at?
whelennut

Whelennut: No, I have never worked at a Wal-Mart.
BUT, the folks at Wal-Mart did get a nice "bonus check" this past week. Their first in 20 years by the way.
Maybe I should apply there?
Naw, the commute would be a "bear" in the winter as I would have to cross the continental divide just to get to the nearest Wal-Mart and it would be a 68 mile drive, each way!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I think the more accurate a rifle the more it gains from having enough scope to shoot to that potential. If a rifle is only marginally accurate then the point of diminishing return on increase magnification soon enters in. A rifle that can at best shoot 2 moa can do it with a 4 power scope. A rifle that can shoot sub .5 moa can do so more consistently with more optics. I think that is the point of the American Rifleman article. You have to have a scope that can resolve the target beyond the accuracy potential of the rifle to get all the accuracy the rifle has to offer.

Exactly! If I remember right they tested a factory .223 rifle with factory ammo and found that after they reached 10X the magnification above that really didn't improve the accuracy a great deal.
The other consideration on a live target is the field of view
diminishes as the magnification increases. Try shooting a running
prairie dog with a 36 power scope sometime!
Eye relief gets more critical as well.
A friend of mine shoots mostly coyotes and fox and likes a 4.5-14X VariX3 Leupold just fine!
When I am shooting at a prairie dog over three hundred yards away
I feel like judging the range and the wind direction and speed is more critical to me making the shot than what magnification I am using. If the temperature is much over 100 degrees then the mirage makes the high powered scopes less desirable IMO.
I don't have time to turn case necks for 2,000 rds. of brass
and I don't weigh my brass and sort my bullets by weight either.
So I wouldn't benefit much from a benchrest type scope.
Now if I could talk the rancher into a concrete shooting bench in the prairie dog town then I might think differently!

Several Swifts adorn the gunsafe, but, they have different uses. Those uses dictate, for me, the scope choices.

Varmint Calling: 6X Leupold (6 X 36).

Prairie Dogging: 4.5 - 14 X 40 Leupold. Often under mirage conditions, anything over 12X only accentuates the image shift. FWIW: I've plans to change to a Leupold 12X AO for the coming season. This is all the power needed for successful shots up to 600yds.

Varmint Hunting: 2.5 - 8 X 36 Leupold.

For such field use, IMO, magnification is lower on the priority list than clarity, lack of distortion and weight. For paper punching, I've use a Nightforce cranked to 35X on a 40X Rem and in the early morning hours it gives a slight advantage in group size, but, in the field it is useless in the higher magnification range when the heat roils in.

At this juncture, someone should correctly suggest I learn to read mirage. I agree and I am improving, but, not to the point of exceeding 12X for high kill ratios on prairie dogs in field applications.

In the days before variable scopes were perfected ( when the zero would likely shift when you changed power), most serious varminters stuck with straight 10x or 12x scopes. During the heat of the day mirage became a serious problem with very high power scopes, and at dust the light transmission was too poor to be effective. I remember how disappointed I was when my Weaver K12 was traded for a Redfield 6400 that cost me 20 minutes of shooting light at sunset.

Today the variables are the way to go. I would pick a 4.5-14 as an all around choice, and a 6-18 or 6.5-20 for dedicated long range.