Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Europe Black powder?

Are there places you can hunt red staag where it is possible to buy black powder when you arrive? I have a hunting partner who wants to shoot a big red stag very much, but he is a serious muzzloader hunter (with a real, black-powder, dead-accurate 1838 replica Hawken) and wants to hunt them with black powder. He currently holds the #2 "longhunter" mountain goat and the #1 "longhunter" Sitka blacktail deer, so he's not a minor league player. We have been talking about going to New Zealand, but it seems that the costs of going to Europe might be equal or less, and we would be hunting wild red stags in their native haunts.

Plus I could go back to Italy and eat myself fat again .

And it wouldn't matter a lot where -- England, Scotland, Sweden, France, Lithuania -- just need a place with a good hunt and black powder available, at a reasonable price. I hunt with a rifle, and could be happy shooting a roe deer or about anything else, just to go along.

We're thinking in the 2011'ish time frame, so there is no hurry.

Thanks all,

Dennis

Not to forget Germany for red stag. Good to hear about such interest. Will be in touch.

Yes, absolutely. I don't think we would have any preconceived idea on which country -- the criteria are:

1) Availability of black powder,

2) Good hunting for a decent red stag,

3) Good hunting for other game like roe deer,

4) Reasonably easy access with firearms,

5) Reasonable cost -- neither of us are wealthy, but we do spend money for hunting adventures

Thanks.

Dennis

cmg,

I'd be interested in hearing what Germany has to offer. My wife and I, were kicking around the idea of NZ, but Germany would be a cool place to hunt with a drilling, and possibly meet some unknown relatives. Condor, has non-stop service from Fairbanks to Frankfurt in tourist season.

Hope you don't mind my butting in, Dennis. Glad you posted this, and great to see this new forum!

Jeff

Pard, you are always welcome to join me... .

Dennis

To mule deer and akjeff,

I don't know cost in Germany but generally red stag hunting his a little bit expensive, we have really good trophies in France too, french stags interbred with eastern countries (mostly CZ) stags gave big bodied animals with large antlers. In most of EEC countries, huntings firearms import is easy except England and Scotland where papers and customs can be boring. Using BP in France not a problem but the matter is it's explosive so normally can't bring with you on international flights. If you use Swiss bp to zero your muzzle loader you'll get no problem to find every where in western Europe. Countries like Lithuania and Poland can offer nice trophies and prices are lower than in Hungary. Spain can be also a good destination for stag as Austria where big trophies are taken every year. In France depends on the place ou hunt.
I can have a look and give some prices next days if you want.
Dom

That would be great -- as I said, we are not in a hurry, so don't go out of your way. We will probably go in 2011, so we have time for planning. I really appreciate gaining the knowledge to plan well.

I forgot that black powder is manufactured in Switzerland. You absolutely cannot bring it with you in loose form on any flights, international or domestic.

I will likely bring a "boring" old centerfire like my .338 Federal, but my friend loves his muzzleloaders .

Dennis

Anyone know if one can fly with black powder cartridges (BPCR)? If so, one could head for Europe with about 50 loaded 45-120 cartridges, pull the slugs on the other end, and have over a half pound of powder to mess with once there.

It's easy to find black powder around here, we use plenty tons of them for folk events and some reenactments in South Belgium. Most of our powder is imported from Germany. What kind of BP do you need ?

Think that if you want BP hunting in Europe it's easier to zero with SwissBP wich is easily available in US and Europe. More difficult to find subsitute like Pyrodex and 777 here...As grand veneur write there's also the german brand available plus some good french one so BP is not really a problem.
I have used BP to hunt in France and Quebec with traditionnal Hawken style fire belchers. Like the need to get close to the game, don't like the in line: to close to modern firearms. But i understand the system of periods in the US and Canada...

Dom

The Swiss black powder would be perfect, as my friend refuses to use synthetics like Pyrodex and 777, nor will he even cast his eyes upon an inline. His favorite, though by no means only, muzzleloader is an exact replica of Jim Bridger's 1838 Hawken. He shoots patched round balls to great effect at ranges I might not try with an iron-sighted cartridge rifle.

This is outstanding news and we will begin discussing new directions for red stag hunting .

Thanks, all.

Dennis

..not to mention that Germany has a huge supply of premium percussion caps too!! RWS caps are first class.

Before using such a rifle for hunting red stag, you should check hunting weapons legal requirements from the country you plan to hunt in.

For ex. In south Belgium, you have to use a rifle and an ammo combo that gives:

- at least 715.44 ft�lbf @ 100 meters for roe deer stalking (min. calib is 5.56 mm).
_ at least 1,622.6 ft�lbf @ 100 meters for other big games (stalking + driven hunt) and roe deer driven hunt (min. caliber is 6.5 mm).

I assume other European countries have minimal requirements too in caliber and energy.

That would certainly be among the things he would have to know, though there is no realistic issue with his .54 Hawken. At least, the 65" moose he killed with it a couple of years ago seemed to die quicklike . (We then spent three days backpacking the meat and antlers to camp, but that is another story .)

If the .54 won't meet standards, I guess he will have to bring his .72 caliber rifle... .

Dennis

Never tried to calculate delivered energy. I own a .58 but it is not for hunting purpose

I just ran some numbers through JBM, and it looks like round balls would not meet the 100-meter bullet energy requirements you cited, but conical bullets, being quite a lot heavier, meet it without any issues.

This is the sort of information we will have to get in great detail before booking a hunt, let alone actually flying to the Continent.

Thanks,

Dennis

But the energy requirements and velocity , to my knowledge, are written in regards to a cartridge, and not a loose BP load.
This , I believe, is how some in Germany are beginning to hunt with muzzleloaders.
A loophole maybe?

cmg, your thoughts?

AKJeff,

Germany has to offer much. I am located 50 miles north east of Berlin with access to forests with great hunting opportunities for roe deer, red deer, wild boar, fallow deer and even mufflon sheep.
Depending on season, mixed bag hunts can be arranged. Unless after trophy red stag, prices are moderate, by my way of thinking.
Unbeatable is the combination of hunting in one of the best regions in Germany with visiting Berlin, for historic and modern sight seeing.

muledeer,

blackpowder and caps are a non issue. GV is right regarding performance levels to be met. Germanys seem to be a bit lower. No need to be to specific, now. With your plans, one could work out details. Marseille is right on the price of trophy red deer.
Hunting red deer in the Harz Mountains or the Schorfheide is challenging - prices vary with deer taken.

Bucktales is right here - there are no energy requirements nor any of the same for velocity when it comes to hunting with muzzle loaders in Germany. The German law deals exclusively with guns intended for cartridges!

muledeer
If you give me a minute or two I'll give you the contact details for a friend of mine who is very much involved in the growing interest in hunting with ML's in Germany.

Cheers
K9

Belgian law doesn't make any difference: Minimal caliber + Minimal energy (+rifled barrel) - no other consideration. By the way, in Belgium we're only allowed to use weapons mentioned by the law, so if law would only mention cartridge loaded firearms, BP would simply be forbidden.

Hunters from NA have to remain that, despite European Union, law is different from one country to another, and that there could be differences inside a country from a region, department or whatever to another.