Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Van Zwoll & 30-30 on elk

SteelyEyes... seriously... moderately well on deer?

That statement at the top of your thread makes more obvious the already obvious... believe those who have the collective field experience and the grounds upon which to make an informed pronouncement. I'll take Steve & John's comments as carrying a bit more authority that this hear-say.

I have a 30-30 that my Aunt & Uncle bought me for my 17th birthday. My first buck sure didn't think it worked moderately well. Of course it wasn't good enough for me, so I bought a 30'06 (lemme guess... thats another "tack hammer" too, eh), a 257 AI, a 7x57, a 338'06, and will buy others. I tell friends of mine to whom I loan that wonderful little lever rifle that I honestly haven't ever needed anything since I was given that rifle.

Were it not for this rifle the settlers would have had a heckfoa time settling the West, and the sourdoughs a heckofa time with Alaska/Yukon. Believe the hype about "super duper shoulder thumpers" all you want (marketers gotta eat to, eh?), I'll take a 30 WCF I can shoot over a 300 super ultra bonus magnum that jars my retina loose against any bull elk.

I didn't say that it lived. It just didn't die close enough for them to be able to recover it.

I shot a decent sized blacktail with a .30-30 at 70 yards. The bullet barely made it to the off side of the deer. My dad had the same results with deer he shot with the same round. Sure that's enough penetration to kill an elk but not enough to do it in a hurry and the farther away you are the less terminal performance you're going to get.

There are a lot better choices in weapons to hunt elk with.

Not trying to start an argument here SteelyEyes, but if that is the case, you had some bad ammo. When the .30-30 first came out,the standard factory load was a 160 Gr. bullet averaging 1,970 FPS. Now, I haven't asked you what the conditions were , or if the bullet contacted a large bone mass, but if not, the cartridge wasn't loaded correctly. I have been hunting my entire life, up until 2 years ago, with a .30-30. in that time, I have taken an average of three deer per year. Shots have ranged from 25-30 yards, to 130-140. that's my limit with open sights. So, an average number, I've killed approximately 60 in my life. I have had one (ONE), that is 1 deer that I had to track, and that was because I made a bad shot, and I knew it when I pulled the trigger. I could go into the larger game, rants about calibers, etc. But the fact is, there were men killing every north american big game animal in the US with .30-30's long before we were born. I'm willing to bet that the old .30-30 cartirdge and it's long list of kills in the almost 100 years it has been around doesn't really care what your opinion of it is. Makes me wonder...cartridge seemed to work fine for the riflemen that came before us. Maybe it isn't the cartridge. Maybe they just spent enough time with their rifles, in the woods, and shooting to know what their rifles would and wouldn't do, and they were just probably better riflemen than we are. So, yes, there are better rounds with which to kill elk now, but the old ones work just as good, providing you do your stuff. Just because the case isn't belted doesn't mean the cartridge won't perform. Doesn't matter what the continent, or cartridge, if you put the bullet in the right spot, the animal will die, every time.

Thanks MD. We all are just human beings. Anyone can miss or the animal can move just as you squeeze the trigger. Having a silver pen in hand doesn't make you infallible. I admire a writer that admits that they make mistakes. A bad hit is a bad hit whether from a 30/30 or 300 super zapper.

Interesting, though, that a lot people say to use the Nos Partition in the 30/30. 30/30 velocities are about ideal for the cup and core bullets usually used in it.

Actually, I once had a factory-load 150 RN from a .30-30 come apart on the shoulder of a doe whitetail. Admittedly a 170 probably would have done better, but the 170 Partition isn't a bad idea when hunting bigger game--and it sure enough works on deer as well.

Precisely.....


Casey

Oh yeah?--One of our wranglers used to use a M92 32-20 on elk--if the elk didn't stop, he'd ride it down on horseback, banging away the whole time until it fell down--then he'd deliver the coup de grace

Don't interpret that as being anti 30-30, that's the cartridge we keep handy at the back door of our high country cabin to discourage the frequent visits by blackies.........


Casey

I have seen too many elk killed with the 30-30 at ranges of around 200 yard to buy off on that...If he wounded and elk at 200 yards then he misplaced the shot or were not getting all the story...

I consider the 30-30 an excellent 200 yard elk killer on broadside shots with 170 gr. bullets of proper construction such as the old Corelokt...Keep in mind at 300 or 400 the 30-06 or at some point even the 300 magnums are nothing more than a 30-30, but that seems to be OK with the masses, including WZ??? Hmmmmmmmm!

Alpinecrick, I'm sorry but I don't buy the "running down wounded elk on horse back" story. Maybe a less dramatic version which goes something like "headed in the direction the wounded elk went and eventually getting lucky and finding it" would be more believable. I have spent most of my elk hunting career on horse back in the mountains, I have never been anywhere were you would have even a remote chance of taking a shot, getting back on your horse and chasing a wounded elk that's hauling ass up or down a mountain, through dead fall and timber and catching up.

Wayne should have borrowed Lee Hoots'.270WCF on those rascally elk at 200yards.

Those 170 Core-lokts leave little to be desired in the 30-30 in my opinion.



The moose which stopped these was around 90 yards distant when it took the one on the left in the forward ribcage area. A second bullet, not recovered, turned a section of the spine to mush at that same distance. The bullet pictured on the right was a close-up finisher; and even there it didn't come apart.

I've actually wished I had an open-sighted lever-gun rather than a scoped rifle while hunting elk.

I have to admit that in a field where credibility is your career, it takes a man to admit his mistakes. I think greatly of writers who are willing to write about things that go wrong. No one on the TV shows ever seems to show that hard parts of hunting or the things that go wrong. I think we get delusional about how hard hunting and shooting in the field can really be.

Personally I'd never use a 30-30 on elk at 200 yards, not much energy left. Took my first deer with one. Would consider it for thick woods, still hunting elk. But not 200 yards.

After reading a WVZ article about "Pet Loads For the 30-06" in which he spent a few words talking about a few loads but then stated he could not really comment on his "favorite" because he "Had not gotten to the range to shoot it yet" I stopped reading him.

Somehow, I do not feel shorted...

----------------
A couple years back I spent a rich couple hours talking to an elderly Native on Kodiak. He was lamenting the big magnums and talking about how the 30-30 used to be considered the BIG GUN for bears there.
art

Then why would you think this way. I ain't never hunted lion, and I ain't judging what folks use to do so.

The 303 Savage is the twin of the 30-30 and it was long regarded as a superb moose and elk round with a 190 gr bullet. I remember many old timers lamenting the passing of the 190 grainer.
As to the 600 yards shots with 30 wondermags: I have watched several experienced hunters make that mistake. The last one tracked a bleeding elk for 3 days and never got him. Know your limitations and the limitations of your equipment when you go afield.

"Keep in mind at 300 or 400 the 30-06 or at some point even the 300 magnums are nothing more than a 30-30, but that seems to be OK with the masses"

Not that it's the only source, but Federal's 2008 catalog lists one load for the 30-30: a 170 grain Nosler Partition with a muzzle velocity of 2200 ft/second. At 200 yards it has 990 foot pounds of energy.

They list seven 30-06 loads with more than 1000 foot pounds of energy at 500 yards; the most powerful being 1570 ft/lbs at 500 yards.

I think you'd need to be out past 600 yards before many of the 30-06 loads dropped to the 200 yard energy level of the 30-30.

That's not to imply that the 30-30 can't kill elk at 200 yards, however.

Just checked the numbers and the 270WSM with a 140 Accubond would have to go all the way out to 875 yards before it got to the 200 yard 30-30 level. No way I'd take a 875 yard shot at an elk, even if conditions were perfect. Just not enough power.

Had the Rangemaster (an honorary title for sure) at the local shooting range tell me the .30-30 is no good on deer at 200 yards.

He based this opinion on the effect a .30-30 bullet has on a steel silhouette at that distance and that it didn't seem to have enough energy to knock them over cleanly.

A friend related how he borrowed a 30 30 to hunt with while visiting and had close to a 200 yard shot at a deer. Knowing how 30 30 bullets fall out of the sky he aimed high.
He held high but on hair and spined the deer DRTing it with a nasty exit wound as well.
Basically he told me the story with a sense that people downplay the 30 30 as a weakling,which he believed, but after his experience they are FOS.