Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Mule Deer? - anybody? - American Rifleman article on Win. M 21

Howdy CF amigos,

The April (I believe) AR, p. 80 carried an article describing a Win. m 21 field grade skeet gun. It described it as choked Winchester skeet #1 and #2. This doesn't mean anything to me. I understand points of constriction, per cent in a 30" circle at 40 yds. etc. Never knew that Win. had their own proprietary chokes. I own a Win. m 101 field grade skeet gun (Japan), and have never been able to get a satisfactory answer as to what it is choked. It appears to be straight cylinder in both barrels. Might it be Win. skeet . . . whatever?

Thanks for info.

forepaw

Winchester skeet #1 is actually a bell, or reverse choke, meaning that the choke tapers in a bell-like fashion such that the inside diameter is actually larger at the muzzle than the bore diameter. This is a very good close range choke, designed for optimum pattern at 25 yards. Skeet #2 is considered a light modified, about .015" choke in constriction.

Not true. The model 21 skeet NO. 1 is about .003" constriction and to my knowledge never came from the factory with an inverse choke. This latter, known as a "Tula" choke was used by Russion Olympic skeet shooters in the 1960s.

Winchester actually patterned the Model 21s and bored them to throw the following patterns:

Skeet 1 87% at 20 yards, 33% at 40 yards.
Skeet 2 93% at 20 yards, 50% at 40 yards.
IC 84% at 20 yards, 43% at 40 yards.
Mod 60% at 40 yards.

Skeet 1 was designed to throw an even pattern into a 30 inch circle at 20 yards but would break up beyond that.

The above information is from the Model 21 by Ned Schwing from winchester Data from the 1940s.

Good info, thank you. This site has a knowledge base like no other, which I appreciate.

forepaw

This is consistent with my Win. m 12 mod. which patterns 61%.

It looks like Skeet #1 has just enough constriction to take the ragged edges away, and Skeet #2 is a strong IC. In other words, pretty useful all-around borings.

You can really see why the conventional wisdom says no Win. m 21 ever accounted for its share of manufacturing costs (or made a profit for Winchester for that matter). This business of custom patterning would have required hours of hand reaming and shooting.

Thanks again.

forepaw

I may have them reversed, but IIRC, the skeet No. 1 was for the outgoing targets, like the High 1 and 2. It was bored a little bit tighter because the targets were a shot a little further away.

The No. 2 choke was for the incoming targets, like the low 1 and 2, and the other incoming targets. The No. 2 choke was a little more open.

I may have the No. 1 and No. 2 reversed, but that is my understanding for the reason for the two chokes. I don't know the constrictions of either.

Skeet 2 is the tighter of the 2 chokes, as someone noted a strong IC or light mod if you will. The notion of outgoing targets being shot far away is a misperception. If skeet is shot properly all birds have identical break points. The way I shoot it...well that varies greatly <grin>.

Scott

I'm jealous. I always wanted a Model 21.

Some gun makers refered "Skeet No.1 and Skeet No.2" as "Skeet Out and Skeet In."
John

"If skeet is shot properly all birds have identical break points."

Possibly for singles, but no way for doubles.

Ky, I've seen several skeet marked guns, had one (12 ga.), and it was in fact reverse choke, a la Tula style, original from factory. True.