Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Half-inch groups

Well.

They're harder than a lot of people make them sound with any thing but a BR rifle. I do believe any rifle will occasionally shoot a 3 round .5 group, and occasionally shoot a 5 round .5 group.

But it's a damn good rifle that will shoot them on demand. My heavy .243 will do it much of the time, but I wouldn't put money on making five in a row. To do so requires a good rifle and a good rifleman with a good hand. And a pretty good day.

I also believe that when one shoots a single .5 group, he automatically makes the claim: "My rifle is shooting a half-inch!" Regardless of how many other groups he shot before or after that didn't come close. I'm guilty of this.

Disabuse me of this silly notion few rifles can deliver them as a matter of course. I see these claims all the time and wonder if my 1" groups in hunting weight rifles and 3-9X scopes are as pathetic as they sound.

Anything below a inch makes me happy. I have guns that will and have shot .5" groups, but the driver isnt always up to the task.

I don't disagree, but I have an AR-15 w/ 3-9x Leupy that always piles them right on top of each other. Just amazes me how simple it is with this gun. My bolt guns seem to be way more finnicky as to how they ride the bags.

Gene, I have a Sako Finbear in .30-06 with a 3X9 Bushnell Elite scope on it. It will put factories into a half inch. I can do an inch with my Rem 40X Rangemaster .22 and RWS ammo off the bags. Those are the least accurate rifles in my safe. My .30-.338 custom, my .300 WSM custom, my Steyr SSG .308 Win. and both my Remington custom PPC's will shoot half inch or better. The only rifle that won't is the rimfire. I'd fire the others out of the safe if they didn't. I reload and like heavy rifles. I also shoot for quarter inch groups and will dump money into a rifle and a good gunsmith's pocket to get it. I got shown up the other day by my friend with his new .204 Ruger Savage. He was using hand loads, but he got a 3 shot one hole group and a couple 5 shot quarter inch groups. I expect a lot, but I love shooting accurate rifles.

Beyond the mechanical means of the rifle itself and the quality of the ammunition the nut behind the trigger will decide weather is one moa or 1/2moa. If you get a little sloppy on follow through, start mashing the trigger or miss a wind call 1/2 moa goes out the window.

I have a tactical/duty rifle that had every single shot logged. Over the space of three years and over 100 3 shot groups (at least one a week after training) it averaged .47" at 100 from a bipod. It was a standard Rem 700 VSSF that was dropped into a Mcmillan stock and run with 168 match. There were groups as tight as the .2s but there were also a couple right at 1". Considering it was shot in all weather conditions with no excuses I was always pleased with the performace. I consider the rifle a 1/2moa gun but I was not always a 1/2moa shooter.

I can tack groups just under 1/2 MOA with my Browning A-bolt M1000 Eclipse 270WSM with handloads and steady rest. I can't say it will do the same with these loads at anything below 20 degress ferinheight, just can't get em that tight the do stay in MOA when your finger is warm enough to shoot well.

I have a TAC 20 that does it on a pretty regular basis. Savage 16FSS, Accu-trigger and about a 4 contour barrel.



It has in fact shot several groups in the 1's

I can appreatiate a precise rifle. Wish I had more time to persue this. As it is, for big game hunting, I am way more concerned with:

1) shot placement from field positions
2) terminal performance of the bullet

There is not much gain from a honest 1.5 " / 100 yards rifle to a 0.5" /100 yards rifle when using field positions. Shooter variation will allways outweigh rifle.

Group size although to me is just a measure of predictability - chance of hitting within this and this range from POA - again shooter variance far outclasses any rifle from field positions.

I have a target set up:



When I can get 5 shots into the 2 MOA circle, I go hunting. When I get close to the 1 MOA circle, I am happy.

Put into perspective with the size of kill zones on even roe deer (min. 8" dia.) I have a lot room for shooter variation from field positions. Somehow, I have never missed that .5 of an inch.

#2 on that. Tight shooting rifles are interesting from an academic standpoint,and in a varmint rifle I'll take all I can get. I have several rifles here that are capable, on a given day,of putting 3 shots in 1/2" if everything falls together.

But frankly sitting and punching out 1/2" groups at 100 yards is pretty boring stuff. I'm much more interested in what the rifle does in my own hands,and from field positions,out to 400-500 yards.The faster I get away from 100 yard benches,the happier I am.

CMG is right when he says that the difference between a 1/2" rifle and a 1 1/2" rifle completely "disappears" from field positions.

And sacrificing terminal effectiveness in a hunting bullet,for group size, is a faustian bargain.

far more 1/2" groups are fired on the internet than have ever been fired at the shooting range!

I knew a guy once that continually told me about his M-70 in 7-Mag that could hit a nickel at 300 yards. I dismissed this claim for months until it got too much so one day I told him I'd give him a dollar for every time he could hit the nickel at 100 yards if he gave me a dollar for every time he missed.

I made nickel sized circles and set the target at the 100 yard range and this guy sat at the bench and took several sight-in shots......needless to say he fired the entire box and never showed me anything better than a 3" group.....

I also knew a guy that claimed he could shoot 3/4" groups at 200 yards with his swedish rifle in 6.5 X 55......with iron sights no less!

Bullcrap abounds!

vapo: I suspect you're right!I have been made to feel downright inadequate at times....

You can say it or type it. The hard part is doing it on demand repeatedly with a crowd watching.

its not the 1/2 inch groups that make me feel humble, its those who practice and make 500 or +500 yards shots.

I never have been a "paper puncher". If my hunting or defense rifles give me three shot groups at 100 yards of 2 inches or less, and do it consistently, then I am a happy camper.
I am not impressed by target shooting rifles.

BS is cheap and easy. but when the hammer drops the BS stops.

I think we are at a place in the evolution of rifle and component manufacture and handloading refinement where it is not a big trick to come up with a rifle that is mechanically capable of half-minute accuracy. I think it's just as hard as ever to shoot half-minute. I have two rifles that I know are honest, consistent half-minute rifles. I can shoot them at a hundred and anything outside a half inch is a called flyer. I have one (new one) that I am pretty sure is that good, but have only put twenty shots through it at this point. My $.02

jimmy: Hitting at 500 is a function of practice. It's a good idea to know "how" to do it,but you can hunt a lot of seasons and never have to do it.

IMHO, it is more important to learn to be quick and accurate at 300 and under.

Knowing when to stay off the trigger at that range is important as well.

Target shooting usually gets old for me after the first group. Even sighting in a scope annoys me so much that I got good with the boresighting so I could do it in as few rounds as possible, simply becasue it was a chore.
Load development bores me silly for the same reason. I quietly enjoy reloading, but shooting the different loads at paper...

I am into shooting for the hunting and an interest in classical rifles.
As soon as discussions start about one inch accuracy or less than an inch I loose interest.
I dont chase it...1.5 inches at 100 metres with a rifle I am happy with and will be unsatisfied until I can get that, but then I am happy. I am good out to 400 metres with a 1.5 inch rifle on red deer with a 4x power scope if I have a good rest and it works for me.

I wont say I havnt had rifles that did better than that, and I was very pleased by that, but that is my standard for a hunting rifle

You know I had a .44/40 lever action that would only do 3 inch groups at 50 metres, and I never missed with the thing out to 100. People thought that it was accurate as hell, I knew better, but somehow it didnt seem to matter.

Depends what your interested in. I am not disparaging anybodies interest; I admire them that do, same way I admire people who can tap dance.

Are those squares 1/2" or 1"?

Nice group!