Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Its Damn UnAmerican.....

to bail on the public education system. Its what made this country strong, and its a fundamental tenant of democracy. Freedoms mean nothing without equal opportunity. Those who prefer to support charter schools, home schools, and private schools instead of investing their time parenting and supporting the community schools are committing treason...well, not exactly, but in a sense, it ain't helping.

Balony!! It's totally American to give your kids the education, along with the values that you want them to have, not what some liberal wiennie deems P.C.

Muleskinner, as usual you're wrong. Forced attendance at anti-religious public schools is unAmerican. Exercising one's freedom to educate his children as he believes best is about as American as it gets. Unfortunately for the teachers' unions, when people have a choice, they tend to reject a lousy product. Peddle your bogus guilt trip elsewhere.

Muleskinner, You have been in the public school system too long. You sound like you actually believe their propaganda.

Reread the founding father's papers and you will discover God is what made this country great. And if you care to accept it, take a look at the directin this country has been headed since God was expelled from public school. Teachers used to be concerned with tardy, spit balls, chewing gum. You don't have to be a brain surgen to find teachers who have, at times, been afraid for their safety at school.

What a bunch of sh[i][/i]it!

That makes as much sense as supporting welfare for anyone who wants it just because a small percentage needs it. You must not have kids, or if you do, they aren't in public schools.

I have 7 kids who are either still in, or went through the public school system, and I have been highly involved with their education. Their teachers, with the exception of one or two, have been poor excuses for educators, especially considering that they are paid in excess of $70,000, plus benefits, for only working 9 months out of the year.

We got this charter school law in Wyoming that's causing extreme difficulty for public shools. The know-it-alls who really know nothing about running a school system get the per-pupil funding for a few dozen district kids. The district ends up doing all their business for them, that is until they find out how hard it is to make ends meet with such limited funding and give it all up. Meanwhile, the district has to discharge staff, redirect bus routes and close elementary schools because of the drain on already tight funding. I'd say about 1 in 10 charter schools lasts 2 years. Then its up to the district to repair the damage to programs for everybody else's kids. The know-it-alls usually crawl back into their holes without so much as a "sorry" for all the trouble and waste they've caused. Good for the newspaper people, but destructive where the kids are concerned. Best to get involved with your community public school. Learn what the hell you are talking about. Chances are, its much more complex than you think, and the local board is doing what it can. If you can do better, run for the board. I've seen many a reformer change his tune once he gets in the hot seat with all the competing demands and constraints. If you think you're a better teacher, get a certificate and go for it. Be prepared for a pay cut though. Of course, there's no real inflation, right SSE? Just tell that to your local board when they approve 15-35% increases in insurance costs every year. Or how about those school buses they have to buy at 5-10% higher costs every year. Or tell that to the staff who see their healthcare dollars buying less and less every year. Ever had to price a new construction project one year to the next? Oh yeah, how about those static fuel prices? Or energy prices in general? Ever seen what the annual increase in utility costs can do to a school budget? I think you guys are in over your heads. You have absolutely no idea what it takes to educate a child for today's economy, or what it takes to run an efficient program to deliver that basket of goods. Best to stick with 30-06 vs .270.

Muleskinner,



Your statement ranks as one of the most asinine things I have ever read and I am dumber for reading it.



You have no clue as to what makes America great. It's the opportunity for individuals to excel and achieve their best, not to be held back by a proletariat educational system based upon equal opportunity for all retards.

Muleskinner................Your full of BS. Thats got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever heard!

Our public schools in Denton are incredible. We have our share of private schools, but the public schools don't take a back seat. The parental involvement in the public schools is incredible. There is not a day that goes by that you won't see several parents as volunteers roaming the halls and a couple of dozen in the lunch rooms having lunch with their kids. This never happened when I was in school.

My wife was an elementary school teacher and we discussed at length what type of school we wanted our kids to attend. I am fortunate to have the resources to send our kids to any school of my choice, but we agreed that we wanted them to attend the public schools.

They get an excellent education acedemically, but they also get an education socially. The private schools in our area are stocked with kids from basically the same socioeconomic background. The public schools have kids from all walks of life. It helps our kids understand how to interact and get along with everyone just like they will later in life.

They do seem to be fairly well rounded. Maybe that is because they like to hunt. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Maybe some credit is due their "well-rounded" parents. Could it be the children of the lunatic fringe cannot function in a diverse environment because they are not taught how to get along? Those are the ones who never make it in the military, or get their asses kicked regularly until they learn what their parents and their homogeneous school careers neglected to teach.

I owed MY KIDS a good education a lot more than I owed a bunch of puppets for the NEA and WEA unions. I could have stood on my head until the cows come home and gotten nowhere with that school system. So I did what I had to do to make sure MY KIDS got the education they needed despite the lack of decent public schools in the area.

I did the right thing and continue to do the right thing, If the teachers want to keep their jobs and have people entrust them to educate their kids then they need to start producing something that resembles an education. Tossing money down the rathole that our local districts are is a waste of time until they make some MAJOR changes.

MY KIDS are already out of the public school system. The system is the same POS it was when I started homeschooling them. There are reasons people that can afford it send their kids to private school and others homeschool.

There is nothing wrong with putting your family first and there never will be. Sorry Mule but you're out to lunch on this one too.

Sorry Mule, if anything is unAmerican here, it's the public education system which itself is a derivation of the Prussian model of education. The Prussian model was designed to insure that young people had the "proper" principles instilled in them through discipline and hard work. The goal was to make good little citizens of the students. This model influenced our current system because it was instituted during the peak years of immigration to America from Southern and Eastern Europe. The goal of the American version was to educate the new arrivals well enough that they could work in the factories and shops, and that they would be literate enough to read instructions and directions. They were also taught things like hygiene, parenting, cooking, and money management.



Any value it had a hundred years ago is gone. The public education system is today a bloated, money glutton that is ruled by teacher's unions and bureaucrats. The sorry excuse for education that they foist off on the children is better suited as a cure for insomnia.



To advocate that Americans should be forced to send their children into a government collective that serves only to warehouse their children, THAT TOO is unAmerican!

Mule,
Public schools are like any other thing run by a 'board' and funded by tax dollars.
A parent's responsiblilty is toward his children's education, not the continued funding of a waste filled system.
What do you propose to do about it?

It is un-American to condition children instead of teaching them to learn and think. I am glad mine weren't taught at the level of the lowest common denominator. That is not what America is about, excelling is.

While my children attend public schools, I support and believe in a parent's right to home school their own children. As for these kids lacking socialization skills, I used to believe that, but it just doesn't hold water. I've coached both my kids in in-house sports programs and have had many home-schooled kids on my teams, and if you didn't know they were home schooled, you would never guess. They're a little shy when they first meet new people, but heck, who isn't? My only concern about home schooling comes from personal experience envolving a good friend and neighbor of ours. They chose to home school, and to put it quite bluntly, the mother was dumber than a pile of rocks. She makes every lady portrayed in a Dumb Blonde joke look like a Rhodes Scholar! Consequently, 3 of her kids ended up so far behind, that by the time they hit 3rd grade age, they had to all be held back a year when she switched them out to public schools. There needs to be a better system of qualifying people to home school, and a better method to check on the kids progress.

public schools are as good - or as bad - as the parents who send their children to 'em. my wife is a teacher at a rural public school in one of the largest systems in alabama. it is an excellent school that reflects the hard-working, blue-collar values of the great majority of parents who send their children there. is it primo college prep? no, that is not the expectation of most of the parents. but that is changing as more white-collar folks who are priced out of the fancy suburbs discover what a sound school it is. it's all about expectations, boys. let me tell you, good teachers gravitate to where expectations are high, poor ones to where they can get away with doing nothing. and a public eduication is not a right, by the way. it is a privilege that slowly is being lobbied and codified into "right" status. this ia NOT a good thing.

To All, what a hot button topic this is! I have worked providing family therapy in several different settings since 1983. Over the years I have had meetings with teachers and administrators in probably15 different school districts. Both rural and urban.
My observations include: some systems are MUCH better than others (I know, big supprise) It is nearly impossible to teach a child math/world history/whatever, when their basic safty & emotional needs are not even close to being met at "home". Even a gifted teacher who has a % of the above kids in their class has their hands so full of crowd control and risk management that effective teaching suffers.
Here are some suggestions for constructive discussion of the public/private/homeschool issues: What steps can a parent take to give their local public school a fair chance? Remember the old saying about there being 3 sides to every story... He said, she said & the objective reality that is likely to be somewhere in the middle.
Work extra hard to be civil and constructive when posting about this. Every school system and everybody is different. YMMV
What are or would be the deal breakers for you personally where you either have to move to get your kid into a different system or go the private/homeschool path no matter what the cost is in time and money? 2nd wind

First off, Muleskinner, you ignorant slut. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Just kidding, you're not ignorant. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Nobody wants to "bail" on the public schools. But, people should take their heads outta their butts long enough to take an honest look at what's there, and have the courage to make the changes that need to be made. Apparently, not an easy thing to do.

Regards, sse

P.S. The public schools underpinning this country's history don't bear any resemblance to what's out there today.

P.P.S. For you goons out there, my first comments were tongue in cheek, and not intended as an attack on Skinner.

America is based on competition - If I can do it better, faster cheaper I win. Why is it that the public school system can not handle the fact that in many cases there are schools that can and do do it beter faster cheaper - so to speak.

COMPETITION is what built this country and the PS system is woefuly behind. I went to both public and private schools in a good (over all) public school system - the public school just could not hang. And saying it is un-American for me not to try and polish a turd is pure BS!

The public babysitting system is great. Not many kids get hurt. The kids learn all about drugs and sex from other kids and sometimes their teachers. They actually get to learn something for an hour or two a day. The teachers get to expound on their screwed up political beliefs. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
And because of the excellent work the schools do, we parents get to spend years unscrewing their minds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />