Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Beginning of the end for the big 3?

With all the talk of the new Chinese binoculars I can't help but wonder if we are witnessing the beginning of the end for the current high end optics manufacturers. I have not looked thru any of the new budget offerings, but too many respectable optics people have stated the quality is there. If the warranty service and durability issues are placated I don't see how the European manufacturer's will be able to maintain the status quo.

I don't think that the folks carrying the 2K+ Leica's, swarovski's and Zeiss are gonna give up their name sake BINS for Zen-Rays for a long time to come. While those of us a bit pragmatic about how we spend our money might consider some Zen's or Promasters, The big three have proven their worth, resale value, collectability and durability, ect. If you have the money, why chance it at this point and not go with a know commodity? When someone who does not read these forums (birdforum, et al.) goes to the store with 2K in their pocket and they see one of the big three (known names) and some off brand chinese name, I think name recognition at this point carries allot of weight. It may happen some day but not anytime soon in my opinion.

I won't believe until I see it. Everyone loves to hate the winners, and might even convince themselves the optical quality is there in the chinese optics when, in fact, it really isn't. I won't.

It doesn't take the proverbial brain surgeon to put quality parts together. Give them the parts combined with assembly skills and the wage differential and things could turn quickly.

Acceptance is another question, but 10 years ago how many knew what a Kia was.

What power does this "Kia" come in?

I believe both 4 and 6 cylinders

I am not giving up my 8 x 43 Victories anytime soon. I want to try the 7x36 ZenRay's however.

Right on! Good assessment.
Swaro, Zeiss and Leica have FAR too much going for them to have some Johnny-Come- Lately Chinese Optics company knock them off the ratings charts. Japan has been at the optics game since shorty after WW II, and Swaro, Zeiss and Leica are still strong; no way are Japanese optics going to destroy the Big Three, ever, nor are the Chinese optics going to do it either.

There will always be a place for the so called big three. They will just raise the price to pick up on declining market share and there will be those willing to pay. An example would be Krieghoff shotguns. Today they raise the price about 5% every six months to a year and still keep making their limited number of 500 shotguns per year. People are standing in line to buy each one.

In reality it is a $5,000 shotgun that they sell for $10,000. The advantage Krieghoff has is that they can charge more for one with a bunch of gold chickens on the sides, top and bottom and in the process individualize the shotgun for a specific customer. The big three will have a harder time differentiating their product, but then they have more different optic variations to sell. As long as they maintain quality they will be there. However, fewer people will be willing to pay the price.

There are already lot of good binocs out there, that are priced less than Leica, Zeiss, and Swaro. Kahles, Nikon, Pentax, and Minox have not "ended" the big three yet, so I doubt some chicom binocs will either.

I don't think the Big 3 will fade away either, but with soaring personal credit card debt, a poor economy, etc it just makes sense people will save where they can. You gotta have gas and food, you don't have to have $2000 binos and $750 scopes to kill stuff. Wasn't it a few short years ago Leica filed bankruptcy, or was considering it? I also highly doubt if Zeiss' sport optics division makes enough money to support the entire Carl Zeiss empire.

I'm buying one of the new Zen Ray 7x36EDs. I'm not a collector (thats what I tell myself), yet after that purchase I will have 6x30 Yosemites, 7x36 Zens, 8x32 SE, 8x42 Ultravids and 10x42 SEs. If the Zens are as good as reported on this and the birdforums, I don't know hat use I would have for the relatively heavy Leica's, I just might sell them.

I'm keeping an open mind on them, I'm not as sceptical as some on the Chinese ability to make a top of the line competitive bin at a much lower price. But to answer the OP question, I don't think any of the big three or four are going to fade away.

John

You will probably get most of your money back for your Leica`s.maybe even more than you paid. You buy the Zens and do not like them say goodbye to your cash.

I don't think the alpha glass has a lot to worry about now, at least from the ZEN ED class glass. They do probably have more concerns about the economic situation. They may have some decisions on how much they actually can charge for their product. The new Swarovski EL series has been reported to have a cost of nearly $4k, and it has been put on the shelf for awhile. They say for quality assurances in the manufacturing process. But I wonder if they do not have some trepidation about selling many at that price.

I think the first market reaction to the ZEN class is represented by the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD. This costs even less than the ZEN. The market adjustment, whatever it is, I think will scramble the mid range binoculars. Remember these cost about $400. I think people will look more toward the ZENS who were going to spend in that range in the first place.

Edit to add: The thing is that whatever product, comparisons are always made to the top tier. In the case of these binoculars, they are good enough optically that the best optical comparison is with the alpha, and not with anyting else in their price class.

I dunno what is going to happen with ANYTHING in this world economy,but one of the drawbacks of being over a half a century old is that you see a lot of 90 day wonders come and go,mostly barging on the scene under rave reviews,and with promises of getting more performance for "less".

Generally this turns out to be a faustian bargain.No doubt today we have better technology,and can get the optical performance of yesterday at cheaper prices today.

There are two aspects to optics instruments performance;the optical side and the mechanical side.I've found that great optics in rifle scopes and binoculars are worthless without mechanical reliability,and the one thing you can't tell about any optical instrument is how well it will stand up to actual field use,the rigors of travel,changes in altitude,rigors of hunting,etc.This comes only with years of use,and is only established by reputation and years of hard times afield.

I bought my first Zeiss Classic in 1980 for the princely sum of $750,used it continent wide for hunting for 19 years,until my eyes changed,phase coating came in,and it became obvious I could "see" better through the new technology glass.In 2000 when I sold them for $500,they were mechanically sound (still);I "rented" these binos for $250 bucks for 20 years,used them hard,and they taught me what good optical instruments were about.

Am I going to get that kind of performance from the Zen or any other binos costing 1/3 the price of a Leica, Zeiss or Swaro? I don't know,maybe.....

But what hunting I have left is too valuable for me to chance it,and worth far more than the cost of one or two top binos with a long track record for great optical and mechanical performance.The Big 3 ain't going anywhere soon IMHO.

I remember when the Simmons Prohunter scopes were supposed to be the latest and greatest scopes...

One look through them was a quick cure!

Although the ZEN, Promaster offer the most serious challenge to Big 3 on Optical quality, those big names will not go away any time soon. They are catering different groups of people. Just like Ferrari vs Audi R8. 3x in price difference with the same machine under different hoods. They seem to get along very well.

Bobin NH,

Ditto to your remarks on the Big 3.

I will really pay attention to the Chinese glass if it shows up with a technology or innovation not already found in the European or Japanese products.

How do you say Six Sigma in Mandarin?

jim