Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Who made this fine old double 12 ga.?

I have a fine old double barrel 12 ga. I'm wondering if anyone can tell any history about it. Here's what I already know. It is finely engraved all over. It has a horn butt plate. It has external hammers and double triggers. It is a sidelock with a dolls head breach and double locking bolts in the receiver. The only markings are Hy Wynian on the right sideplate, and London, Fine Damascus on the rib. These markings are engraved, not stamped and there is no serial number. The underside of the barrels have double British proof marks, and one barrel is marked, Not for ball.

I have learned that the double proof marks mean that it was proofed with black powder. The practice was to proof test the barrels as soon as they were made, and if they held together they were fitted to a receiver, and then proof tested again. The British only used the, Not for ball, markings from 1887 to 1899 to signify that the barrel was choked. Therefore it's between 110 and 122 years old.

I'm not interested is shooting it or selling it, just curious. I'd love to hear any further information anyone cares to share. Thanks.

Sure sounds pretty I think we need pics!

If you don't get an answer here, try www.doublegunshop.com "Doublegun BBS" forum.

I went to doublegunshop and found out plenty. Seems the dates are 1875 to 1887. Turns out it's probably a hardware store gun made in Birmingham or maybe even Belgium. They would make up these inexpensive guns and the company that ordered them would have their name engraved on it. The guys at doublegunshop say the makers back then could engrave anything they felt like on it. My brother bought it in Mass. at a tag sale years ago, and I don't think he paid much for it. Though it's not the fine gun I thought it was, it's still real Damascus and pretty nicely engraved, at least by today's standards. Very interesting, and thanks to Mike Armstrong for steering me in the right direction. Pictures.






[img]http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn140/troublsom1/P1010013.jpg[/img]

Geez, that's a beauty!

Turns out it was made in Birmingham by the Midland Gun Company. Probably closer to 1875 than to 1887. Seems it's about mid-grade as such things go. There is a guy over at doublegunshop.com who has almost the same gun a few years newer. Turns out it has a horn fore end tip, which I hadn't even noticed. More pictures. Can anyone tell me what the correct resolution is for pictures so people don't have to scroll back and forth. I'm either too small or too large.

Do not shoot that shotgun, even if tempted! Damascus barrels will not hold modern pressures and firing it would be extremely dangerous!

Put it on the wall and admire it for it's workmanship.

Wouldn't dream of shooting it even with black powder. Though it would probably be safe with black. It's way too nice to take a chance on.

not a thread hijack....and it's probably best to confine Damascus barrels to black or equivalent pressure smokeless....but the "damascus will blow up with nitro loads" thing is pretty much a myth.

like so many firearms stories....it's been repeated so many times that "everybody knows" it, even though it isn't factual.

many, many damsacus guns were nitro proved. Double Gun Journal did a big controlled test on this within the last year or two....couldn't blow up a damascus gun with any sane load. Anybody intersted in the subject should have a look at the DGJ article....Ross Seyfried has also written on the subject.

Of course, one should use caution with any used gun, particularly one more than a century old, and have it checked out.