Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Ball for mule deer?

I drew a traditional muzzle loader hunt for mule deer this year. No in-lines, no sabots, loose powder only.

I have a .50 Hawken.

I have used maxi-balls in the past, and the results were dramatic, but the trajectory leaves a bit to be desired.

Does anybody have experience with patched round ball on mule deer? It should shoot a lot flatter. Any suggested loads?

It will do just fine. Keep the shots 100 yards or under though. What brand is your hawken?

My brother in law drew a muzzleloader tag up East of Raton. I forget which game unit.

Don't be too sure of the "shooting flatter" part of that. Plus, if you keep your shots short, which is a good idea, trajectory is not an issue because a conical will only be 2-3 inches high at fifty if it's zeroed at 100. A round ball has the worst ballistic coefficient of any projectile. Which means it loses a lot of energy by the time it goes 50 yards. A round ball will kill deer fine, but there's nothing wrong with a good conical, and if you look up retained energy in ballistics tables, you'll see that a conical beats the pants off a round ball when you get out past 50 or 75 yards. Because you're relying on a slow-moving hunk of lead and the greater the mass, the greater the kinetic energy; a .50 caliber rb is 177 grains or thereabouts, and a conical is 350 grains or better.

Now I understand that ballistics tables don't tell the whole story and that people have been killing deer with RBs for hundreds of years. That doesn't mean they're better than conicals though.

It's an old T/C.

How much powder to get that trajectory?

I have to admit I have not spent enough range time (yet) to know what it does that far out. Last time I had it out I had determined that my max range was considerably shorter, and passed on a shot because of it. The manual says 100 grains max. I'm using Pyrodex, but willing to experiment if warranted as long as I can get it lit.

Well, I've used between 80 and 100 grains of powder with a 350 grain bullet with my in-lines. Your Hawken probably has a 1-in-48 twist, which is a compromise twist to shoot both RBs and conicals so you should be OK.

In my .50 Hawken, the Hornady Great Plains bullets (385 hollow point and 410 flat point) shoot well. Buffalo Bullets would probably also shoot well, they're similar.

i have killed allot of mule deer as well as elk with 50 and 54 cal RB . not to mention more then a few mulies with a 45 cal rb . they will do fine and carry more then enough energy out to 100 to do the job .
Infact they will carry that energy a lot farther then one thinks . But staying within the 100 yards ranges is very good advice IMO and is where the RB shines

yes a conical will carry more as well as retain more do to it weight . but also remember just because it carries X amount , that doesn�t mean it spends that amount into the target .
the only time we can say that , is if the conical does not achieve complete pass through . if you achieve complete pass through , this means the projectile did not use its complete store of energy within the target
the key with the rb is not really the load , but proper shot placement . put the ball behind the shoulder , angling forwards just as an archer does with an arrow.
So my suggestion to you is work up a load that will give you the best and most consistent group .
The RB will do just fine

my 54 flintlock does very well with 80 grains of 3 F . the last 50 i had liked 75 .

All I know is that with round ball, the one factor that brought my groups much tighter was accurately tuning the charge. 98 grains FFFG got it to "minute of beer can" at 100 yards.

I have killed seven whitetails with a .50 cal round ball. 4 broadsides, 2 quartering toward, 1 quartering away.
4 of them were T&Ts. 1 busted a shoulder and a bone fragment took out the heart. Had one bad low lung shot. And one that entered the brisket, through the right lung and out the middle of the ribs.

Within 100 yards the results can be quite impressive.

The only deer (whitetail) I've ever hit well that I almost didn't find was shot with a .50 rb out of my Hawken at 30 yards. 80 grains pyrodex. Deer was standing broadside with his head down and I hit him right in the ribs behind the foreleg, halfway up. Ran a long ways and we almost didn't find him.

Not a speck of a blood trail and no pass-through. I've hit 'em at 130 with a conical and had it blow right through. Technically, you could say some of that energy was wasted. The way I look at it, the bullet just has more energy than needed and there's nothing wrong with that.

But if you're interested, a .50 rb leaving the muzzle at 1,800 fps has around 430 ft-lbs at 100 yards, and a decent conical will have more than twice that amount.

Yup, I have shot 2 deer broadside with a .54 rb. Both balls were recovered under the skin on the offside. The deer were harvested, but I am not impressed with the rb for hunting. Both deer ran over 100yds, and had a limited bloodtrail.

Some traditionalists may love the rb, but I'll stick with conicals if possible due to my two personal experiences.

You could also swap in a Green Mountain barrel with a faster twist and turn it into a conical rifle. I like to shoot them in my inlines (White and ULA), and once you learn the trajectory you will be good to go.

I do use a rangefinder.

jim

lets see , i grew up hunting and using centerfires . i have seen deer and elk do the same thing with a 30.06, a 270 and a 300 mag .
i have had cases with all 3 where i did not get complete pass through .
i have killed deer and elk with a bow . got complet pass through , blood everywhere , yet they still went along ways .

put the ball where it needs to be and you dont need to have complet pass through . but if you want complete pass through then go to a hard ball .
out to 100 yards it will go completely through . well inless tou deside tou want to try and drive through the shoulders , then maybe not

adain if the conical does not enlarge and spend its energy , but passes all the way through , it has not dilvered all its energy . same with a RB . if your getting 500 ftlbs at 100 and get complet pass through , then the ball did not use 500ftlbs . so really it doesnt mater what it carries , only what it dilivers

captchee, I'm not against roundballs but the original poster was leaning towards a RB over a conical due to trajetory and I just don't see that as a big deal out to 100 yards, so I don't think he should base his decision on that.

And when you say "I have seen deer and elk do the same thing" with the centerfires you named, I guarantee you're not talking about seeing a whitetail standing broadside shot right smack behind the foreleg at 30 yards that ran over 200 yards with no blood trail.

I shot an elk @ 140 with .530 round ball with 80gr RS and that sucker only went 60 yards with both lungs torn up. The blood trail was very good, easy enough for me to track it through the thick brush we have here.

Also forgot, new mexico has a primitive season where i believe you do have to use round ball only. Sidelock/flintlock/musket with open sights. Their regular muzzy season, everything goes.

smoke pole .

I would agree that there within 100 yards should be very little difference in trajectory . Technically the RB will be alittle flatter , because it traveling faster . But at a given point that velocity fall off quicker then the heavy conical . Because it doesn�t have the weight .

but believe it or not that distance can be your enemy just as easy as you friend .
to close with a magnum load and the volicty can be high enough that the soft lead can easly fracture aginst bone . to far and energy becomes the issue .

my load for my 54 is 80 grains of 3F . for my conical its 110 .
i have had times under 100 yards were neather passed completly through . infact i have had the conical not pass completely through elk at less then 50 yards . but thats blowing through both shoulders .
i would have to say , thinking back that more times then not , its the conical that doesnt go all the way through .
but i use soft lead when i cast my conicals and WW for RB when hunting

I wasn't saying that they don't work either. They obviously will. In my experience there are better tools for the job.

The only advantage rb's have over concials are 1) cost, and 2) lower recoil. In all other regards, conicals are superior hunting projectiles.

There is a coolness factor to starting a rb and cutting the patch at the muzzle....do whatever makes you happy

PS...I don't buy into the energy thing. No animal has ever been "energized" to death. Just like wars are won, critters die by breaking things. Energy is just part of the equation.

DJB , there is always something that will do the job better .
Be it caliber or equipment .
One can easily make toast over a camp fire . But for most folks an electric toaster does it better .
My 46 case VAC discs my field just fine . But a new john deer will just do it better and faster
We could go on and on all day long .

As to energy , energy is the life of any projectile . Energy is what breaks things , energy is what makes the hole . Energy is absolute. Without it your hammer wouldn�t fall nor would the projectile move ..
Recoil is energy . But heavy recoil isn�t necessarily a tell tail sign of the transfer of energy to a projectile .
Im thinking the real question in all of this is how much energy is needed to kill ?
Surprisingly it can be very little OR it can be a whole lot . Just depends on what one is trying to do .
Energy is what breaks things , be it bone or the hart and lungs . How much energy one needs , again just depends on what one is trying to break ..
A 300 weather by carries a lot of energy . But under given circumstances it simply cant deliver or make the most effective use of that energy
IMO that�s key to all this . Learning how to get the most efficient use of that energy for any given task .
An arrow carries very little energy but is very effective . A 155 caries mass amounts of energy but I think we all would agree its wouldn�t be the most effective use of that energy for say a deer LOL

Now this may sound ,as some of you will put it elitist, but here me out if you would .
I think another + to add to your list for the RB , would be proficiency .
Now im not saying that because it so called period correct or because it traditional. Nor am I saying those that shoot conicals are not proficient . that�s simply not the case . I base this soul on the amount and cost of shooting one can do to be proficient .
For the cost of a dozen conical , I can shoot 100 rounds . that�s powder patch ball .
As such a person can if they so chose spend the time to become proficient with shot placement.
Same with the conical . The more shooting one does , the more proficient one becomes
So when I say proficiency im meaning that one can , if they so wish , become very proficient with their weapon . This reverts back to cost . Its directly related.
The RB needs proficiency , just like learning to shoot a bow . One needs to learn how to be proficient with the bw and its projectile . if one doesn�t do that then ones probably not going to be to happy with the resulting out come

Myself , I treat my muzzleloader shooting with the RB just as I do with my bow , but with 3 times the range . I use the same techniques for hunting , right down to shot placement.
IMO if one does that , they will be happy with the results of the RB . That�s my experience any what

That's the hunt I drew, except rules are slightly different than stated.

As far as projectiles, the prohibition is on "sabots, belted bullets, multiple projectiles...".

That is how I got my ULA ML for a Utah hunt in '93: iron sights only and it had a ghost ring rear sight. The aperture type rear sight is mo' bettah, especially as you get older.

I still like a conical bullet properly sized to the bore diameter (Learned that from Doc White).

jim