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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 16,740 |
I'm curious now, how about some better pix/description of the etching on the blade. If this was an "issue" item, wouldn't you expect some sort of official nomclamenture inscribed somewhere in the blade? I'm thinking of things like a makers mark perhaps, serial number ect? I see something on the blade, don't y'all. OK I'll have another beer and look again. One of the websites I was looking thru would ID a sword for ten bucks. Arms and armour I think.
A government is the most dangerous threat to man�s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,307
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,307 |
BCR,
It is true that a lot of swords in that period had all metal scabbards, particularly for the mounted arms. I am sure that there is a reason for using leather in some cases and metal in others. Danged if I know what it is though. Perhaps one of our reenactor members knows more.
I do remember reading of people whose sword, after heavy rainfalls in the field, ends up rusting into the scabbard. Lt Kincaid of the 95th Rifles wrote of that happening to him at Waterloo. I assumed that he picked up one of the broken tipped swords described by Peter E. above.
Chuck
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 16,032 |
There is definately something there. I seem to make out what appears to be a stand of arms.
BCR
Quando Omni Moritati
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 532
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BCR, Sorry to disagree and although I am no expert, I do have both a calvary officer's sword and an artillery officer's sword in my family that still exist and that we played with as children. As a consequence I believe that it is definitely an Artillery Commander's dress sword. If you look at the hilt of the sword and the guard, it is much too ornate to be just a plain Artillery man's sword or even that of a line officer. To my mind this sword definitely belonged to some one of importance above the rank of captain (probably a Colonel or a Brigadier General). Also, it is too ornate, with an obviously unsharpened blade and wrapped leather hilt, to be of much use on the battlefield for anything other than posturing and giving commands. This is demonstrated by the actual fighting swords of the period such as the very serious cavalry sword in my family's possession which has a much much longer sharpened blade and a brass wrapped pommel,hilt,and which is damned near indestructable. Also there is almost no doubt in my mind to be of Civil War vintage 1840's-1880's. Please do not think me the definitive expert on this subject but also remember that my family is old Virginia military and I grew up with just about every kind of Revolutionary and Civil War artifact, curio, and relic that you can imagine, to include live shells and loaded revolvers, and rifles as well as swords which we were permitted to handle, shoot, and in general, use for daily play like most of you played with He-Man, Great Garloo, or O gauge Lionel trains. HORRIBLY SHOCKING AIN'T IT? Especially the loaded Mortar and Cannon shells! Ha! Ha! Ha! I'll just bet some Liberal Pinko Commie is just throwing a [bleep] Fit right about now Huh ???! And they wonder where us Southern boys git all our military training from? It's in our blood stupid! QUITE LITERALLY. Later folks. Flower Child
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Joined: Feb 2005
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I see something on the blade, don't y'all. OK I'll have another beer and look again.
I agree that there appears to be something there. Hopefully either the beer or Bea175 can provide more information. Chuck
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Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 119
Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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No arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. - Ronald Reagan
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This is just my two cents. Here goes, a sword historian remarked that the civil war cavalry were common issued to infantry officers and in reverse were in demand by the cavalry officer because of the longer length. I thought about that bit of information a good deal and could the legitimacy of the argument.
I also had the vision to think of all the short infantry officers dragging the sword tip in the dirt. Scabbed are just about never found with the sword, or are in vary poor condition.
Thus saith thr lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeh from the lord. Jeremiah 17:5 KJV
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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I'm not so sure..If you look at the pick in your link, the decorative part of the quillion appears to form a dragons or lions head, where as in bea175's sword, its a plain scroll... Going off the various information on that arms2armor site, I'd tend to agree with Chuck Trees and guess its a US Model 1850 Foot Officer's Sword, especially after reading the description: " This sword very closely resembles the 1850 "Mounted" Field and Staff Officer's Sword; they were approved on the same day. The most notable difference is the absence of the US on the guard (absent on the Foot Officer's Sword, present on the Staff & Field). Another notable difference is the smaller guard. It also closely resembles the Model 1852 Navy Officer's Sword, the major difference being the absence of distinct naval motif, (most notably the absence of the "dolphin's-head" on the quillon finial at the tip of the upper guard). This pattern was used by North and South during the Civil War, with obvious associated lettering changes."
Last edited by Pete E; 07/22/09.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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We took in a sword at work last year and did quite a bit of research to ascertain what it was....it was similar in design (I know...broad statement...) Anyway the era was about the same (1860) and I think you guys are getting real warm with this 1852 Navy Officers Sword... What we found FWIW is the subtle differences in design such as the one just mentioned by Pete E. had more to do with who, when, and where it was manufactured than by who it was issued to... Apparently mil specs were a bit vague for swords back in the day.... We founds LOTS of tiny variations on the same "model" sword... Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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