Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Who knows someone who did the cash for clunkers deal?

JMR40, I don't have any problem accepting what the gov't wants to give me.

My problem is that the program, by definition, destroys working vehicles. It takes things with value, and makes them worth nothing. And many indications are that a large percentage of those vehicles are replaced by ones with little, if any, additional operating efficiency. So, the environmental benefit is dubious.

My guess is that there will be an upward adjustment in used vehicle prices, as those so-called "clunkers" are diverted from the secondary market to the scrap yard. The effect will be felt accutely by those who can't afford anything more.

I also wonder whether the program might merely be shifting sales forward, rather than creating new demand. The program ends, sales tank, and around 500,000 people won't need new cars for quite a while.

I'd have no problem with a straight tax rebate for everyone who buys a new car. If the environment is really that big a deal, then they can graduate it based on EPA Est. Mileage. Heck, make it $10,000 for cars getting 40+mpg. That gets the sales going, adds a provocative incentive toward cars with better mileage, and keeps the other cars available for those who need them.

Why we're in the business of killing cars is beyond me.

FC

" Why we're in the business of killing cars is beyond me. "

Me too,....it's just flat WRONG !

GTC

These are the same kind of people who can't figgure out why they are poor. I'm betting they blame Bush.

With the government owning auto companies, of course they'd have to figure out a scheme to start selling somee of those cars.

Now, I don't know anyone that has used the program. The last thing I want is another car payement, can't wait to pay off the vehicles I have, and run them until repairs exceed their value.

Your calculation doesn't even take into account the carbon that will become defiled by oxygen in the process of building the new vehicle.

I think that, instead of calling it the Car Allowance Rebate System, they should have called it the Car Rebate Allowance Program.

A friend traded his 200,000+ miles Chebby pick-em-up for a new, loaded Chebby 4x4. He got $4500 for the clunker, and an additional $4500 from the dealer, plus some additional incentives. Total was $10,400 off sticker. He has the financial ability to handle whatever the payments are.

The program has it's faults. I admit it is hard to see working cars destroyed. But if you claim tax deductions, you cannot be critical of anyone who participated in the cash for clunkers program.

Tax deductions are a government program that allows you to reduce the amount of tax you owe if you meet certain criteria. You can argue that taxes are too high, but if you earn the money, you owe the tax. Claiming deductions is a legal way to reduce the money you owe.

The Cash for Clunkers is a government program that allows you to pay less for a new car if you meet certain criteria. The program is a legal way to reduce the money you owe.


The net result is the same. Less money to operate the government and higher deficits.

How can you criticize one program and participate in the other? Because you have been accepting the deductions for so long that you don't even realize that you are accepting a government handout.

The answer is to completely overhaul the way we pay our taxes and create a more fair way to do it. A flat tax with no deductons would suit me fine.

That's it...it's just an additional taxpayer subsidy to Chrysler and Government Motors. How many of the klunker-trader-inners do you think qualify for a standard loan?

This is just another mini-sub-prime bubble, courtesy of Rahm and Obama. And they're getting ready to do on for appliances, I hear.

Well first, find in the tax codes where it says you have to file a 1040 in the first place and pay them a damn thing from your wages, which is bartering time for money, not income, which is generated from net profits on business taxes.

When you find the answer, get back to me on taking a hand-out from the thieving SOB's.

I disagree. Each tax break should stand or fall on its own merits. Tax policy is supposed to be done for good policy reasons. The deductions and credits to married persons and to parents are supposed to encourage marriage and strong families. The home mortgage deduction is supposed to allow people to own homes instead of renting. Capital gains rates are designed to stimulate investment. Whether these are laudable goals frequently is debated, and some have historical bases that maybe aren't true today. The ostensible purpose for the Car Rebate Allowance Program was to get old, polluting clunkers off the road. We all know that the costs of junking cars and making new ones greatly outstrips any energy or pollution savings caused by MPG differential. This wasn't just a deduction or a tax credit. It was an out and out gift to anyone who met the criteria, whether taxpayers or not. It also was a gift to Government Motors as well as other car manufacturers that cannibalized potential sales by other sectors of the economy. As pointed out by many, the typical person taking advantage of the program is someone who is better off without the added debt burden. People who can afford cars can buy them without the CRAP. I was against the bank bailout, but it made more sense to keep the banking system propped up than car manufacturers and dealers. The country is messed up now because people only judge programs by whether it benefits them or not, or doesn't cost them anything, and not whether it is fair or makes good sense. Saying that I can't fault you for taking advantage of CRAP just because I take a child credit is wrong.

the cash for clunkers is a multi billion dollar program that just gave foreigon car manufactures a lot of our money. Do you think that people are buying American. local dealers are pushing their japanise and chinese cars. One dealer is backing up the cash for clunkers with a cash for junkers. i think they are getting trade ins on the decent cars from the government deals worth more than $4500 and putting a junker in its place to be scraped. what is going to be interesting is all the cars that were turned in to be scraped on the $4500 deals that still had money owed on them.......

I was gonna, for the junker Expedition I have, but with the stipulations, it just didn't pan out.

We used it to get my wife from a 14 year old mini van with 200k miles on it into a 2009 VW Jetta.
if it wasn't for C4C we would be sweating her driving 70 miles round trip in that jalopy.

At the moment, it sounds like a good way to get even with a car dealer.

hmmmm,...can one criticise Obama without being a hypocrite after participating in one of his socialist initiatives?

even a broken clock is right twice a day

+1 what Cheyenne said.

To take a tax deduction, you have to pay taxes! I don't recall seeing any such requirement in this clunker. It would have been much more palatable as a tax credit, but would not have accomplished PBO's redistribution plans then.

Jerry

For the dealers who actually get paid by the government, if they do, before they go broke. Only a small fraction of the "cash for clunker deals" have resulted in reimbursement so far. All the standard excuses apply, too few clerks to process the claim forms, the forms not being filled in correctly by the dealers, etc.

Clunker

But don't worry, I'm sure government run health care will be all different.

I know of 2 teachers at the school I teach at that used cash for clunkers program. At least they have jobs..lol I was kind of jealous I didn't have a clunker.