Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles HELP!! I am confused on this one.

I have a bit of a confusing rifle on my hands right now. At least I am confused. Has anyone seen something like this before.

Exactly two weeks ago, I loaded up a bunch of rounds for load development on Monday night--.338 Winchester Magnum, Winchester cases, 250gr Nosler Accubonds, Federal 215 primers, and Reloader 22. The only thing that changed was the powder charge. I started at 73.0gr and worked up in half grain increments until I reached what was listed as book max. The rifle shot its best group at 74.0gr--right at 3/4". I was pleased, not as accurate as the same set-up with IMR 4350, but I was pleased nonetheless (not to mention I can't get any IMR 4350 right now).

This is what the group looked like--100yds, cool barrel, 1 minute between shots, 5 minutes between charge weight changes:


0.75" group @ 100yds



Last night, confident I had found my load, I loaded up 20 rounds with 74.0gr of RL 22 and off to the range I went intent on zeroing in and checking the 200yd groups.

On the 100yd pre-check, I was graced with a group twice the size of what I had expected. Again, 1 minute between shots and at least 5 minutes between groups.


1.5" group @ 100yds



Wondering if maybe this was one of those loads that would "go to sleep" on its way to 200yds, I moved on anyway.


3.0" group @ 200yds



True to what I had just seen at 100yds (the 1.5" group above), I was presented with a 3.0" group at 200yds.

Still a little disgruntled, and now rushed by the eminent closing time of the range, I fired off another group without waiting quite as long. A little surprised the group shrank to 2.5".


2.5" group @ 200yds



Now, determined to get one more group in before I wrapped it up, I didn't even let it cool off and fired three rounds in succession without any cooling--I even added one more for good measure....now I am really confused. the group shrank to half of what I had just shot moments ago at 100yds.


1.5" group @ 200yds



How is it that this rifle was able to shoot a significantly smaller group at 200yds with a HOT barrel than what it shot at 100yds with a COLD barrel?

I am at a loss. I know that the performance is good enough for an elk hunt with no problems, but I am a little disappointed after seeing what it can do--and should do without having to heat the barrel up.

What do you all think?

I think it's just the normal and ordinary dispersion of bullets you see when you fire groups with many hunting rifles. The smallest group is not "typical",even though we would want it to be.Rather, the average of a bunch of groups is the tru indicator of what the rifle is really "capable of"..so you keep shooting and some groups will be larger, some smaller.

If you want "perfect" groups, you have to build a "perfect" rifle,and few of them are...

I would say that you are doing just fine with a sporter weight rifle shooting a very powerful cartridge like a 338 Win Mag.

And don't forget that the rifle is only as good as the person behind it,and we cannot hold perfectly every time,no matter how hard we may try.We are all going to have good days and "not so good" days.

Often you have to shoot a bit to settle down and do work worthy of evaluation. Might be the case here.
Be that as it may the truth is that if it is not repeatable....it isn't.

Groups seem to be nomadic by nature, particularly when given a day or more to travel from where they were previously found. It will drive you nuts if you let it.

Re-clean and return for another set of groups. Compare with IMR 4350 loads in the same fashion before getting too worked up (if you have any left). Like you said this isn't your preferred powder and the new one is good enough for hunting. Loads do lie and sometimes it is just that a rifle "likes" a particular combination. Mostly I stumble into good loads...

There are a number of possible reasons:

1. Did you change scope settings? I would presume you did since the POI changed. It's common for a scope to need a number of shots after a setting change before it settles down.

2. Did you clean your barrel before you shot it again? Depending on the rifle and method of cleaning, it's common for the POI to change and group size to change for the first few shots after cleaning.

3. Did you leave a coating of oil in the barrel? If you did, that will pretty much always change group size and POI and can even damage a barrel.

Thanks guys. Like I said, given its purpose, I know it will work. I was just confused by that session a bit I guess.



Yes scope settings were changed as I was zeroing the rifle.



The barrel was cleaned over a week ago, but I ran a few dry patches to remove any oil this past Friday and I even fired a few shots (5) to foul the barrel on Monday.



See answer above.


Like I said, thanks again. I guess I just wanted to make sure I hadn't pulled a stupid on this one. I will try and make it back to the range soon so I can try it again. Unfortunately, I won't have a comparison load of IMR 4350.

sent you a PM

Rather than run dry patches through the bore to remove oil, which probably wouldn't remove it all, I would recommend running a patch or two with solvent on them and then a dry patch.

It is not good for a barrel to shoot it with an oil residue. The bullet traveling over the oil can produce enough hydraulic force to swage the barrel.

I've talked to a couple guys who had rifles that shot better at 200 yards than 100. Then I read an article that quoted a gun maker who only tests loads at 200 yards, not 100. His idea was that some bullets take a little longer to stabilize once airborne. Some stabaiize and shoot to their best potential by the 100 yard mark, but some needed the extra 100 yards to do their best.

I have heard that as well, but given the same relative temp of the bore, the initial loads were about the same MOA from 100yds to 200yds, I was wondering why groups shrank considerably as the barrel heated up.

Maybe you just shoot better under pressure. That's what I'd tell the guide anyway. But settling in after scope changes and barrel cleaning sounds at least as likely. Good luck on your hunt. BTW I'm jealous of your location. Been a while since I've enjoyed a Gulf Coast sunrise, nothing like it.

I've got a military 7X57 that shoots the same groups consistantly at 200 yds as it does at 100 yds. Sounds like your example.

I would just run with that until you find some IMR 4350 again. I cant imagine that 1.5" groups would not be tight enough for an elk. I am an accuracy nut too, but hey, can you really shoot a half inch group out in the woods? Just know that the bullet is going to land just about where you aimed it and dont let it ruin your confidence.