Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Who's run BH 209 through the wringer?

Been a real FFg shooter for a long time now, and found weighing my charges just as critical to good accuracy predictability as seating pressure, sabot type, bullet, is/are.

Swore off of Pyrodex long ago as it never gave me what real black does, and I never bothered to try 777 or any of the other substitutes. Why fix what ain't broke.....

I'll be having a new rifle for this season, and with 209 ignition this time....and VAnimrod happened to "forget" a pound of BH209 here on my dining room table last time he was here. So, I'm definately curious about using it in this new rifle.

I see it's says it's volumetrically equivilent to blackpowder just as the other subs are supposed to be, and the appearance of this stuff looks like it will meter very well with a volume measure.

Two questions:

Has any screwed around with weighing charges for consistancy vs. throwing volume charges, and if so did it prove to matter with this powder?

Per seating pressure of the load for consistancy: Light, firm, or as tight as you can get it?

With real FFg in my 77/50 weighing charges made a huge difference in "group" size, and my seating pressure with a 240 XTP/sabot load was "firm" but not as tight as it would go. That's what that rifle liked the best.

Looking to cut some of the experimental effort out of this new rifle as time will be short when I finally can get to it.

I use the clear TC powder measure with the plunger and built in funnel. I measure out 90 gr loads and even though that was my starting point, It has worked so well that I haven't bothered with anything other than that. I shot yesterday and it's amazing how accurate this is.

Buddies of mine here in VA are using it too Denny, but they really don't worry about "accuracy" much. As long as they can smoke the boiler room it's good 'nuff for them. They are volume measuring it as well, and I doubt with any more precision than you are.

With my 77/50 and real FFg I was well prepared to shoot whitetails out to 225 yards without any fear of a misplaced shot...I could routinely hit a snuff can at that distance with turrets dialed in and a solid rest. I don't think my buddies here are stretching things much past 100 yards.

How far have you tested your loads?

Tried blackhorn 209, an am sold on it.
I shoot 100 gr by volume in my encore, with black belt 295 Aero tips. groups quite well. Seated as firm as I can seat them. I have not found a negative on the powder, clean, very clean. I hope to put the encore , Blackhorn and Aero Tips, to
work, on a Big Old Black Bear. Leave tommorow for Canada, and
a week of bugs and quiet. cannot wait.
Try the powder, I believe you will like it. Did I mention
how clean it is.
Russ

Last year marked off to 127 yards. Shot a doe right in the throat patch, right where I was aiming. Point of aim and DRT. That deep snow we had I figured the less tracking the better. I got it about 1 1/2 to 2 in high at 100.

I have been reading a lot about this stuff and I haven't used loose powder since the pellets came out. I have an Omega for 4 years and I guess I have been lucky in shooting 1 inch groups at 100 and 2.5 to 3 inches at 200. I have killed numerous deer in the 150 to 200 yard range with 150g 777 pellets and a 250 Shockwave. But with all this hype I'm thinking I need to change???? I have a new CVA Accura on the way and putting a Ultimate Slam on it to try and aid in my longs shots. I want to try it in both. What is the simpliest way to measure this powder and with what do you use to know you are really getting 90/100/110 or 120g packed right????

Until it died last week, I used a Lyman 1200DPs Electronic powder measure and scale for BH209.

I don't see any reason to confuse things & use weight to measure charges of the black powder & sustitutes. It's always been a VOLUME measurement. Yes you can get more energy in some, say 100 grn volume of Pyrodex vrs 100 grn volume of B209. That can be accounted for in load adjustment if need be.

I just pour the measured charge, tap the barrel some to settle it & firmly seat the sabot on the powder.

I toyed with the idea of weighing it once. Just once.

There's really nothing to weighing it. BH209 is very similar to smokeless "stick" powders when it comes to weighing each charge.

All you have to do is weigh 5 volumetric charges(IE pour 5 110grn Vol charges and weigh them on a scale), take an average of the weights, then weigh up how ever many charges you desire. No danger to it, and more consistent than volume measuring.

With the limited distance of MLer hunting, it's not a need, but it makes me feel better knowing that each charge is exactly the same weight.

I use small glass viles with a screw on lid for my weighed charges. Works like a champ.

I even weigh 777 Diff strokes for diff folks.....

Good Luck

loder

Hey guys I appreciate the info and I guess I will have to make a call on whether it's worth measuring it out once I get into it!!! I guess if I was to shoot BH209 that might affect how the ultimate slam scope

There seems to be less advantage in weighing BH209 as compared to some of the other subs. The new powder meters very well in volumetric measures. You can use a volumetric powder thrower safely with BH209 so that's a quick way to fill some tubes or speed loaders if desired.

Firm seating pressure is fine, no need to stand on it.

What rifle are you getting? Be sure to use hot 209 primers such as regular Winchester, CCI, or Federals (or Cheddite).

You will need a drill bit that just fits down the channel of your breech plug in order to easily clean out the heavy carbon deposits you will encounter with BH209. Hoppe's #9 will also help with that effort. Some say a soak in Coca Cola will break up the carbon as well.

Aside from price and the need for maximum ignition, the carbon deposits inside plugs are the only significant drawback with the powder. Start with a clean dry bore, load, and go hunting. You will likely never need to swab the bore other than for thorough cleanings.

Good powder with a lot of things going for it, but a few negatives as well.

judgetodd10, your Accura is a near-perfect match for the new powder.

Underclocked

Did you try going up to 100/110/120 to see your group???? I have been shooting the T/C Shockwave for years in an omega with great results and it's seem to be better than most on long shot drop. I'm trying to find a combo to shoot long shots. I hunt a lot of powerlines down here in NC and it seems like the big boy is always out there 250 to 300. I know that is a long way, but that is why I wanted to try that Leupold Ultimate Slam. I'm not sure if it will work with the BH209 because max charge is 120???? Ant suggestions???

No, I didn't play with the charge much at all. Wound up sighting in with 300 grain XTPs with the same charge weight.

You might look into some of the Lehigh bullets or the Thor bullets. Both are expensive.

http://www.thorbullets.com/

http://lehighbullets.com/products.asp?cat=16

I read up on the ultimate slam and it's says you can zero at 100 and pull back at 300. Shoot a group on a big target and fill in the group with a big black circle. Aim back on the bulleye with the main crosshair and adjust the reticle until the 300 yard aim point hits the black circle on the target and mark that setting on the power ring. The scope is made for 3 pellets or 150g, but the vel is to be 2200. Hell the BH209 site says their 120g is getting 2149 with the Shockwave Bullet. If I could get it to group with the 120 it might just fall into place anyway???? What is the deal with the drill bit you talked about. Do you use that to open up the hole bigger or just clean it out????

The bit is to help clean out the breech plug flame channel. A proper fit for your Accura is likely a 3mm metric bit. I don't have any metric bits so I just use one slightly smaller than the hole. Many of the American made plugs have 1/8" flame channels. Find the right bit before the plug is dirtied with carbon deposits, it's easy to be fooled into thinking that channel is open even when it's partially clogged.

You can turn it by hand or use a low speed battery powered screwdriver. If by hand, some people mount the bit in something to make it easier to handle.

My Accura plug performs better with regard to the carbon fouling than do my Knight or TC plugs - but they all have to be cleaned. Sometimes that cleaning becomes necessary after only a dozen shots or so.

I will have to try that out!!! All I have to do is figure this scope deal out and get something mounted on it to try all this stuff???? I guess you don't have a comment on the Ultimate Slam????

How is your KP1 working out?

jundgetodd10 - no, I can't comment on the Ultimate Slam other than to say that I've read good reports from actual owners. Nearest thing I have to that is a Burris with ballistiplex reticle. Scopes of that type work if you take a bit of time learning where and how to use those extra points. The method you describe for zeroing at 300 should work, but I would certainly want to know the resulting impact points at ranges out to 300. I would never simply trust the manufacturer's claims of performance.

Whelenman - KP1 is up for sale again (on another forum). Haven't even shot it for quite some time, but do have a newer design breech plug in it that is supposed to offer better control of blowback.

I'm wanting to take a look at an Apex next - only way to do that here is to buy one and have it shipped to a local FFL. It's a sickness.