|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781 |
JBLEDSOE, no apology necessary! I guess I'll keep the 38-55 and 375 shells seperated then. I have just begun collecting up components for 38-55 as I have a .38-55 94 being shipped in next week (one of the 1979 vintage "Legendary Lawmen" 94 Winchesters). I have been loading 375s with lead 245 gr. bullets that mike out at .376". These bullets I got from Western Nevada bullets, and the box is marked "38-55". I've seen that rifles in 38-55 over the last 100+ years vary in bore size...do you have any idea what bore size is on this 1979 Win 94 38-55 "Legenday Lawmen"? Thank you for your insight.
ken@the river
GO DUCKS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,864
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,864 |
.
I have had two 38-55 Winchesters (new vintage) and both had groove diameters of .380 +/- .0005. Both needed cast bullets of .382 to shoot best. One of my guns was a "Legendary Lawman". Both have since been traded for something else. My old Winchesters like the .381 or .382 cast bullets.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,539
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,539 |
My unfired Winchester Big Bore Mod 94 XTR - 375 Win is a top eject. The Serial # is BB036xxx. No safety.
Thanks for the .375/38-55 info. I was thinking about an H&R Target in 38-55. I was also considering using both cartridges. Good luck.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 518
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 518 |
The 38-55 also differs from the 375 in the strength-thickness of the brass. The lighter, thinner 38-55 brass will open and seal at much lower pressures than the 375.
When Winchester improved the standard 1894 into the 94 Big Bore, the max OAL chambered remained unchanged. Most 38-55 ammunition produced today uses a tapered flat nose bullet of .377" diameter, and is fully capable of shooting out of the .375. If I recall correctly, Buffalo Bore used to make heavy 38-55 ammunition that they also recommended for 375s in excellent condition, a practice I find questionable, both for accuracy and safe operating pressures. BBA often walks a thin line with pressures, an extra couple thousands of an inch could be all it takes to exceed the 50,000 cup limit of the Big Bore action. At the very least, this practice is likely to wear the action much sooner than with correct ammunition, and lead to head space issues.
Maximum pressure for today's 38-55 lingers somewhere less than 28,000psi, with 30,000psi seen as the practical limit by most. Hot rodders will always try to push this limit, trying to turn the 38-55 into a 375, all the while ignoring the merits of the real 38-55.
Essentially, the 38-55 is the parent to the 375, and as such they are close enough to have significant cross over. Winchester was poised to end the confusion between the two by releasing its first .40 cal cartridge in 90 years. It would have been even more impressive than the 375, alas, it never saw the light of day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 158 |
Go read ken waters pet loads. If I remember right he did fire a 375 winchester in his original 38-55.
I think I also heard that they used the 38-55 reamer to make the 375 winchester so the 38-55 case will fit but you would need to size the case down for the smaller bullets of 375 winchester.
I would never shoot anything in my 375 winchesters but the right brass but that is just me. I don't load them to the max either again just me. With my long barreled one I can get over 1900fps with large lead bullets so why mess things up.
In a free country the government doesn't fear its citizens and there firearms. In a crocked government everything is up to be removed even the citizens if they truly believe in freedom.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 476
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 476 |
Paco Kelly says that you can use the 38-55 in the .375Win in a pinch! I believe Paco!
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 476
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 476 |
The 38-55 also differs from the 375 in the strength-thickness of the brass. The lighter, thinner 38-55 brass will open and seal at much lower pressures than the 375.
When Winchester improved the standard 1894 into the 94 Big Bore, the max OAL chambered remained unchanged. Most 38-55 ammunition produced today uses a tapered flat nose bullet of .377" diameter, and is fully capable of shooting out of the .375. If I recall correctly, Buffalo Bore used to make heavy 38-55 ammunition that they also recommended for 375s in excellent condition, a practice I find questionable, both for accuracy and safe operating pressures. BBA often walks a thin line with pressures, an extra couple thousands of an inch could be all it takes to exceed the 50,000 cup limit of the Big Bore action. At the very least, this practice is likely to wear the action much sooner than with correct ammunition, and lead to head space issues.
Maximum pressure for today's 38-55 lingers somewhere less than 28,000psi, with 30,000psi seen as the practical limit by most. Hot rodders will always try to push this limit, trying to turn the 38-55 into a 375, all the while ignoring the merits of the real 38-55.
Essentially, the 38-55 is the parent to the 375, and as such they are close enough to have significant cross over. Winchester was poised to end the confusion between the two by releasing its first .40 cal cartridge in 90 years. It would have been even more impressive than the 375, alas, it never saw the light of day.
The Win Model 1894 came out in 38-55 and wildcatters necked it down to 30 cal,then in 95 Win brought it out in 30/30 and deer and elk and black bears and all creatures that roamed this Earth feared! Bob
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2 |
I have been flirting with a (like new) Win 94 in 375 caliber. It is like mint and I can get it for about 600.00 or so. What do you guys think? My only setback are my eyes and the fact that it is not drilled for a scope. What do you say? I bought one about a month ago for $500. Looks like the online auction places are asking in the $800 range. The one I bought came with 2 boxes of ammo minus 1 shell, possibly the only time it'd been fired. The only blemish on it was a previous owner had installed uncle mike's sling swivels including drilling the stock. I haven't shot it yet ... plan to keep the factory ammo, at least for a while. Got dies. I should have .375 win brass here in a couple weeks. I've made one box of 50 shortening .38-55 cases. I plan to use these for cast bullet loads only at .38-55 pressure levels so the strength of the thinner brass is not an issue. My gun is pre angle eject. There is a Weaver side mount which fits the factory holes but I don't plan to go that route, I think a receiver sight (which I just installed) is more suited to my view of the gun. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,569
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,569 |
Which reciever sight did you put on your .375? I am seriously considering taking my side mount scope off and going to some type of peep site.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, used up, worn out, bottle of Jim Beam in one hand and a .45 in the other, loudly proclaiming WOW-- What a Ride!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2 |
I went with a Williams. See http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=249848 ... that's what I bought 'n' where I bought it. It's installed but I haven't shot the gun. Before removing the rear sight and putting in a filler block, I adjusted this sight to whatever sight-in was previously done and there seems to be plenty of adjustment, so I don't expect to need to change the front sight. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,864
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,864 |
Paco Kelly says that you can use the 38-55 in the .375Win in a pinch! I believe Paco!
Bob Kinda like using 32 Spec. in a 30-30? In a pinch, of course. .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781 |
Paco Kelly says that you can use the 38-55 in the .375Win in a pinch! I believe Paco!
Bob Kinda like using 32 Spec. in a 30-30? In a pinch, of course. . Right...isn't the .38-55 groove diameter ~.380", whereas the .375 is ~.375"?
ken@the river
GO DUCKS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2 |
That depends on the rifle. .38-55 is a caliber where there's a lot of variation gun to gun, maker to maker, across time. Like .45 colt cylinder throats.  I would worry considerably about shooting .38-55 in a .375 Win. The .38-55 case is longer, not shorter, and unless the chamber is cut pretty sloppy, the front of the case may wedge between the bullet and start of the rifling causing pressure to go way up. Tom
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781 |
That depends on the rifle. .38-55 is a caliber where there's a lot of variation gun to gun, maker to maker, across time. Like .45 colt cylinder throats. I would worry considerably about shooting .38-55 in a .375 Win. The .38-55 case is longer, not shorter, and unless the chamber is cut pretty sloppy, the front of the case may wedge between the bullet and start of the rifling causing pressure to go way up. Tom My Winchester 94BB 375, vintage 1980, will chamber a 38-55 loaded round easily. I haven't shot one out of it, as I have a 38-55 Winchester rifle also.
ken@the river
GO DUCKS!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,456 Likes: 2 |
Chambering isn't a safe yardstick with a cartridge where the case crimps into a cannelure.
As the cartridge fires, the bullet pushes forward and the very front of the case, which starts out crimped down into the cannelure, has to move outward to let go of the bullet. If the front of the chamber is too close, there may not be clearance, the part of the case that starts out in the cannelure may become a wedge between the shank of the bullet and the start of the throat.
I know I'm not explaining this very well. Maybe an analogy will help. Take the '06 for example. Do you let your cases grow .1" too long or do you trim long before that? You may well get an '06 shell with a truly excessively long case to chamber, you don't have problems 'til you fire it. It's the same thing since the .38-55 case is .1" or so longer than the .375 Win chamber.
It may come out ok if your .375 Win's chamber was cut long. Otherwise you could be flirting with blowing your gun up and maybe yourself with it. A chamber cast should tell you.
Tom
Last edited by T_O_M; 09/18/09.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
Here be dragons ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 158
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 158 |
years ago it was thought that all the early bb 375 winchesters were cut to handle the 38-55 because that was the reamer that was available.
I know that ken Waters fired a 375 winchester in his 38-55 and nothing happened, but he wouldn't recommend a steady diet of this shooting.
My custom made bb in 375 winchester maybe cut to accept the 38-55 original but haven't had a chance to prove it yet. My gunsmith thought it would work but he died before we could prove it. So I shoot only 375 winchester in it.
In a free country the government doesn't fear its citizens and there firearms. In a crocked government everything is up to be removed even the citizens if they truly believe in freedom.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,034
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,034 |
None the less, the 375 is a efficient caliber. Mine is the Win BB 94. I have killed several white tails with it. All were very impressed.
Joseph
Joseph
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090 |
Well I have shot one several times and my brother in law purchased one back in those earlier years. The ammo at first was hard to come by as I remember. My brother in law stated that it didn't kill deer any better than Pops 30-30 Winchester. I would also have to agree on that statement too!
It never held a candle to my .444 Marlin that is for sure. It didn't take long and the .375 Winchester was gone South.
Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All
UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 10,262 |
Which is why a nice one will be for sale at $800 on the internet sales sites.
I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 781 |
Which is why a nice one will be for sale at $800 on the internet sales sites. While a used Marlin 444 can be had for $300-350 or so. And New they're only $450.
ken@the river
GO DUCKS!
|
|
|
|
|
559 members (12344mag, 1234, 06hunter59, 1936M71, 160user, 1minute, 57 invisible),
2,510
guests, and
1,424
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,175
Posts18,484,632
Members73,966
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
