Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Mountain Lions In Western NC DNR denies AGAIN!

news clip
Cougar curiosity peaks as a picture of a cougar with a whitetail buck circulates in the mountains. Some locals believed the game camera photo was taken in Black Mountain, others in McDowell County. News 13 learned it is a real picture, but it was taken in south Texas.
Even so, people here still believe they've seen or heard cougars in the area and think a photo like it could be a possiblity in Western North Carolina. The WNC Nature Center Animal Curator, biologists with the NC Wildlife Commission, and folks with US Fish and Wildlife all tell News 13 they can't completely rule out mountain lions in the area although they say the animals are unlikely to be here.

Every time one of these things comes up, it will be denied.

Here's why (and I got this answer from a VERY long-term and high ranking VDGIF official several years ago):

If cougars were confirmed in the East, a schit storm you couldn't imagine would start.

You'd immediately have three factions all going at the local and federal agencies.

The first faction would be the environmentalist/animal rights wing. They'd be suing to have the cougars classified as "endangered", "critical habitat" determined and blocked off, hunting seasons curtailed to "benefit the cougars", etc. And, litigation from their end would be relentless.

The second faction would be the sportsmen's groups, trying to get the cougars listed as game animals or predators, managed through hunts, etc. They'd be backed (to some degree) by the agricultural factions. Litigation from their end would be a serious threat, but more so would be the political pressure the sportsmen's groups and Farm Bureaus could levy against the game agencies through the legislature.

The third faction would be the guys taking up arms to rid the area of the cougars prior to either of the other two factions getting something done. If it wasn't listed, their position would be that it shouldn't be there, and it needs to get gone. The tie-up of man-power and resources chasing these knuckleheads would be severe.

Given that cougars are very reclusive, and that any populations in the East are remote and scattered (if any exist), the chances of people seeing them often enough to make a plausible case for a population is remote. Any sitings can be (and will be) played off as misidentifications, and escapees and releases from captivity.

That said, I know, for a fact, that there is (or have VERY recently was) at least breeding population of cougars in the Appalachians. As does that official with whom I spoke. I know this, because he and I had that conversation while looking at the pug marks of a lioness and two cubs made the day before when I witnessed their crossing that area from less than 100 yards away.

It's been about 20 years since but I was hunting a small 40 acre tract of land in Va. that borders the Shennandoah National Park. I was driving out early one day with a buddy and 2 young looking immature (60-80 lbs??) mountain lions crossed the gravel road right in front of us. I saw them coming down the embanment towards the road and thought they were deer at first. We both saw them clear as a bell at 25 yards or so right in the road right in front of us and knew what they were immediatly. It was quite a suprise but there was no mistaking what they were. I reported it to the Va. Game Commission and they were well aware of other sightings. 163bc

They aren't here and it's a felony to shoot them, was the last word I got.

It never ceases to amaze me the number of absolute dumbphucks, who call themselves "avid sportsmen", that can't see the forest for the trees........

All one needs to do is remember, or at least research, the Spotted Owl controversy in the Pacific NW to realize the HUGE detriment to Sportsmen that PROVING mountain lions on the east coast would be.

And not to mention the detriment to many non sporting endevours, business related things that locales depend on, and such.

Let the enviro freaks get hold of proof of a "breeding population" of Cats and see what happens next........

The mountain lion killed last year in Troup County, GA (near West Point and LaGrange) was determined by DNA to be a Florida cat, not an escaped captive as they thought. I'm sure the guy that shot it will be prosecuted.

The denials of cats living outside currently known ranges might need to be re-thinked

At 140 pounds it was a mature cat in great shape. Let one kill a kid and all hell will break loose.

Here's what a Sportsmen's Federation liason to the NYDEC said in response to another "My cousin's neighbor's brother's best friend just saw a cougar in his backyard!" thread....

What....do you WANT/NEED to prove something?

I could tell you I've seen them, heard them, found their tracks, found their kills. I could tell you that I might even have a pic or two, and a video...maybe.

But I won't.....because I have absolutely nothing that needs to be proved.

There's no Cat's around here.......

Young male mountain lions can travel quite a ways in search of their own home range territory. We get an occasional young male mountain lion in eastern Nebraska that has made it's way here from the Black Hills in SD.

At the risk of dumbphucktitude, I don't see the detriment. Usually this type of thing is neutral or even beneficial to sportsman. Logging and development not so much.

Read what Sean posted above.

Then google up "spotted owl controversy"....

Throughout their range, mountain lions are primarily predators of deer. The resurgence of white-tailed deer populations throughout the U.S. and the current regulations that protect mountain lions from indiscriminate killing in almost every state virtually guarantees that they will slowly repopulate almost all of the suitable habitat throughout their former range. They are great travelers, especially the males, and readily spread into suitable habitat with supportive prey populations.

Lions have the ability to adapt to life in the urban/wildland interface where deer are pretty much unhunted, are often at high densities relative to wildland populations, and are often relatively naive about predators. Like all predators, lions are opportunistic when it comes to prey selection. Out here we have found hair from feral hogs, javelina, domestic livestock, skunks, domestic dogs and cats, and desert bighorn sheep in their stomachs. One male who made a living taking domestic animals and pets over along the San Pedro River in Arizona just south of Benson, was finally caught by a friend who is a professional lion hunter. In addition to hair from dogs, cats, domestic goats and sheep and a llama, he found little dog collars, cat collars (some with little bells) and flea collars in the digestive tract.

If you live in an area with good deer populations, you will eventually have a resident population of mountain lions (if you don't already have one).

Thanks, for the "help".....

wildswalker, you're only hope is for Web Fu to strike this thread.

Here are the guidelines for dealing with mountain lions in Nebraska, pretty reasonable if you ask me.

http://www.journalstar.com/news/sta...d118150-a625-11de-893c-001cc4c002e0.html

several people that I know well saw one near Little Mountain in Transylvania county a few years back.
just yesterday I saw a game cam foto of one taken near Fint, Georgia and it was easily over 100 lbs.
around 1973 I was driving home over the Blue Ridge Parkway over Pisgah Mountain about 11 p.m. and what appeared to be one crossed the road in front of me. it was very foggy and I was driving at reduced speed for fear of hitting a deer I got a good look at it anfd it definetly wasn't a deer or bear.

Unfortunately, the mountain lion issue east of the Mississippi can be classed along with UFOs, bigfoot, lake monsters, etc.
Human nature/psychology plays a bigger part in this stuff than fact. It's always second (at best), third or more-hand information. It also usually involves "quotes" from DNR, Game & Fish, etc. etc. officials, who no one can ever remember the name of.
Cryptobiology may be fun, but so are horror movies, and both are pretty firmly footed in the realm of fantasy.
No state wildlife agencies are keeping anything secret. First of all, there is no reason for them to do it, and more importantly, no large organization is that good at keeping something like this such a closely guarded secret. How do I know this? I work for one.
This makes great fodder for conspiracy theorists, but beyond the entertainment value of that, there's nothing behind the curtain.
Will there be mountain lions in the east someday? Maybe, but when they get here, it will be pretty obvious, as there WILL be verifiable sightings with physical evidence, just as there is in the western states. For now, any verifed cases involve escapes/releases of captive animals, and these are few and far between. I don't expect the "convinced" masses to buy this, but it needs to be stated anyway. Truth tends to be the only tool that works against ignorance.

The spotted owl controversy was over logging the owl's habitat - hunting wasn't an issue.

Regarding VA's post, the eastern cougar is already on the federal endangered species list. There are plenty of states, Minnesota included, that have confirmed but small populations of cougars and their presence is a non-factor for sportsman.

Sean's spot on.

It's an open secret that cougars are east of the Mississippi.

And here is an example of what Sean is talking about:

http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/site/voice_stories/cores_cougars_corridors/issue/544



Cant blame the Fish and Game folks for not wanting to stir that pot of crazy.

Chuck

That pic has been around for a while. On another web site, a guy claims that the pic was taken in PA. Looks like some local guy has made a fool of the media.
Here is a link to the story on yet another site. On the right hand side of the page in the search box type in mountain lion.

Buck Manager