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Who needs science when you have religion?

EDMOND � The Oklahoma House of Representatives Education Committee has just approved House Bill 2211. The bill is expected to pass the full House, and then to go to the Senate. Its authors describe it as promoting freedom of religion in the public schools. In fact, it does the opposite.

HB 2211 is identical to bills widely introduced into state legislatures across the nation, where they have met various fates. Texas�s Legislature passed it, and Texas is experiencing serious problems as a result. Liberty Legal Institute of Plano, Texas, a group of fundamentalist Christian lawyers, drafted the bill and promoted to legislatures, including Oklahoma�s. It was not written by its Oklahoma legislative �authors.�

The bill requires public schools to guarantee students the right to express their religious viewpoints in a public forum, in class, in homework and in other ways without being penalized. If a student�s religious beliefs were in conflict with scientific theory, and the student chose to express those beliefs rather than explain the theory in response to an exam question, the student�s incorrect response would be deemed satisfactory, according to this bill.

The school would be required to reward the student with a good grade, or be considered in violation of the law. Even simple, factual information such as the age of the earth (4.65 billion years) would be subject to the student�s belief, and if the student answered 6,000 years based on his or her religious belief, the school would have to credit it as correct. Science education becomes absurd under such a situation.

full story: http://www.edmondsun.com/opinion/local_story_067125346.html

Sounds fair to me, since Darwin has had the market cornered for quite sometime.

Fair and balanced.

Sounds decidedly crack pot to me...

i dont know....if the test question asks you to explain Darwins Theory of Evolution and you go off on Creationism and dont touch the theory of evolution you got the question wrong.....if it asks to explain two types and yah throw up Darwins theory and the theory your religion has than your fine so long as you can prove your portion as its written in the Bible or what ever book of worship you use....the way i read the above in the first question if a student doesnt answer it and instead explains creationism than he gets it right.....

all for fair and balanced but from what i read of the above that aint it....

Oh no, the conservatives don't want to legislate their religion and force it on the rest of us. What, them? Why, I never...

(With apologies in advance to TRH for mangling his definition of Conservative....)

I suspect it will just mean that the exam boards will need to phrase the questions more carefully....

It will be interesting when the fist Muslim use the law to promote the Koran and their beliefs...

Pete, this is what these guys don't get (the ones pushing this stuff I mean).

It's a fargin' can of worms. You REALLY want to force schools to allow religion to trump reality in the classroom? REALLY? All religions? All classrooms? REALLY?

Answer is: nope. What they want is good wholesome Christianity to rule in the public schools. That's it. They would [bleep] a brick if their kid was forced to have some other religion imposed on them in a public school.

It really is mind-boggling that a "conservative" (TRH: note quotes) can say they are for freedom, and the Constitution, and then advocate this kind of crap.

I'm sorry I'm cussin' but this stuff really torques me.

We are about ready for a FSM thread around here. That would REALLY piss off the religious conservatives. Tod, what think you? Is it time?

I dunno, the education system has been dumbing down tests for years, otherwise remedial reading would not be so hard to get into in college.

Still, allowing incorrect answers based on matters of faith does no one any good. I want, no, demand, my kids know and understand all about evolution as well as Creation.

As for "facts" of how old the earth is, is it really 4.65 billion or 6.45, or 9.28 or 1.49? Without a "made on" stamp, I simply won't believe any of that nonsense. I can't muster nearly the faith required.

STUPID but they probably also subscribe to the mathematical theory that 2+2=5.

I just finished Dan Brown's new book "The Lost Symbol" about Masonic wisdom/enlightenment. I guess it's true what the Bible says, "...many are called but few are chosen."

I'll stay in my country (Montana), we aren't the religious fanatics that other countries are.

Well Jeff you step in the crap once again showing your libtard ways

You've spilled the beans on yourself too many times to ever sell anyone you were ever a conservative. You're as lefty as they come.

2+2 does equal 5. For very large values of 2.

Nope. And word to the wise: using the word "libtard" does not make the user look real bright.

Since you are here enlightening us, 17ackly, why don't you explain then how the example Tod quoted INCREASES freedom and INCREASES adherance to the Constitution?

What I see is an article of opinion, based on an athiest view of the actual bill.

When a child can backup what he believes and has been taught in a clear and concise manner that differs from the theories that scientist have came up with that are in complete opposition, then I don't see the problem.

If he simply pulls the religious card, but is obviously not well enough versed in the subject to form the opinion, nor back it up with fact, then he's at the mercy of the scientific point of view.

I still believe that any child should be able to absorb both lessons equally and decide for himself. I also believe that part of going to a school is simply memorizing the text of a book and learning little to nothing of the curriculum.
Like the rest of the kids, they should be required to endure the memorization of the useless crap and be graded accordingly.

Shakespear, Advanced Algebra, and 15th Century European History....

Does wonders if you're on Jeopardy, but past that, it's good for nothing.


After a few posts, I'm wondering how the TRH came along there Jeffy?

Freedom of self-expression and to learn. You should minimize the former and take heed of the latter.

It's funny how we westerners laugh at how backward some of the Islamic and other non-Christian countries are economically, scientifically and in general progress. The answer is right above. When religious dogma takes precedence over science, you get backwardness.

Easy way around that on exams. Rather than asking for the student's perception on say "evolution", the question could ask one to explain Darwin's perceptions.

1st Amendment allows freedom of religion. When a child has been brought up in a Christian home to except the bible as the truth, it is undermining that right if the teacher is not willing to at least present both sides of the argument, or at least acknowledge that the scientist may not have it figured out and tis only a theory.

Religion of any persuasion should not be forced on anyone, but either should athiest teachers who view their way as the only way.

I don't believe that any one person or religion necessarily has it figured out, but to be thorougly educated on the subject, you must be willing to listen to both sides of the argument.
To turn a blind eye to either side is equally destructive to a thorough education.

JOG,

So you advocate freedom of self-expression in the classroom, so much so that it trumps facts and reality? ALL self expression, or only Christian self-expression?

There's a world of self-expression out there.

Can you even imagine a teacher trying to ride herd on a classroom where the various religious people could answer whatever they wanted on anything? That's absurd on the face of it.

We Americans have the fundamental right, acknowedged (not granted) in our Constitution, to be free of a state religion. There are two ways to do that in our public institutions. One, is to make places like schools and courtrooms secular. The other, is to allow ANY RELIGION to do ANYTHING ANYWHERE.

You want Rastafarians smoking dope in the classroom? You want Muslims on their prayer rugs in your kids math class? You want someone sacrificing a goat in the cafeteria? You want wacko cult members able to do whatever it is they want to do? Nudity? Sex? Drugs? Native Americans hanging from strips of breast flesh in P.E. class?

All of those things and more are part of some religion or the other.

There are many ways to interpret a graph, Tod. You seem to have missed the correct one.

Matt,

I have no problem with religion in the schools- in a "Religion" class.

In fact I think that'd be great. It could use as it's textbook the seminal early book on the subject, Huston Smith's "The Religions of Man".

It's limited to the major religions, but it's a good book. It presents each religion in an unbiased form- lays out the major tenants of each, explains the reasons behind the things that, sometimes, seem goofy from the outside looking in.

One thing- an honest education in "Religion" would result in a lot more athiests and Buddhists. Just sayin'.